The Bill That Wouldn't Die - aka PACT Act

[GoVegan]

PACT

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/us-...-of-2009-s1147
Got that URL from the smokersoutletonline newsletter.

I have a feeling that the politicians could care less about our opinions on this subject. I wrote my senator and her reply was "I will keep your opinion in mind" AKA the f**k you and your opinion standard reply. These mini markets have very strong lobbies and make themselves seem like the saints who never sell cigarettes to kids which is ironic because most kids get their tobacco from these little markets. Also, there is a lot of tax money involved so the enforcement costs of this act will be a moot point. It would be great to see this bill die but I have a feeling that the overwhelming odds are is that it will pass with ease. Our one bright spot will be the up to 180 day period to enact the law which will give us time to get stocked up a bit.

[justintempler]

IMHO,

Online petitions are a waste of time. If you are real serious it takes the old fashioned letter sent via snail mail to get noticed.

[Snusdog]

(a) Cigar
''Cigar'' means any roll of tobacco wrapped in leaf tobacco or in
any substance containing tobacco (other than any roll of tobacco
which is a cigarette within the meaning of subsection

This is really great news if the definition Tex provided is the one PACT is using. It is absolutely and utterly worthless from a legislative stand point. Let's apply this same definition to “cars” to illustrate.

(a) Car
''Car'' means any motorized vehicle with 4 tires or any motorized vehicle (other than any motorized vehicle which is a Motorcycle within the meaning of subsection

So my 18 wheeler is a car, my riding lawnmower is a car, my 4 wheeler,
my 747 jet, my moped, Backhoe, my kids battery operated G.I. Joe toy, my….my…my

Get the point?

Relabel your product and make them enforce this definition. :P

.

[GoVegan]

PACT Act

It's a nice try Snusdog but I have a feeling even if you hired the best lawyers and spent millions in legal fees, for all of your troubles you would get nothing more from it than strange looks by a judge in a courtroom. The cigar exclusion portion of the legislation seems downright stupid to me in that we are going to clamp down on all tobacco products but it is fine if you smoke a big fat cigar, we will leave you alone. Perhaps we can tie this bill up by writing to our senators and letting them know we are worried about our youths whipping out their credit cards and having cigars shipped to their houses. Also, you can order and ship wine over the internet even though the drinking age is higher than the smoking age.

[Snusdog]

Re: PACT Act

It's a nice try Snusdog but I have a feeling even if you hired the best lawyers and spent millions in legal fees, for all of your troubles you would get nothing more from it than strange looks by a judge in a courtroom. The cigar exclusion portion of the legislation seems downright stupid to me in that we are going to clamp down on all tobacco products but it is fine if you smoke a big fat cigar, we will leave you alone. Perhaps we can tie this bill up by writing to our senators and letting them know we are worried about our youths whipping out their credit cards and having cigars shipped to their houses. Also, you can order and ship wine over the internet even though the drinking age is higher than the smoking age.

I don’t think so GV. Here is why

This sort of solution is already providing cover for clove cigars (formerly clove cigarettes) and Roll your own pipe tobacco (formerly Roll your own cigarette tobacco).

I think it works as long as the products (snuff and snus) fly under the proverbial “potential tax revenue” radar.

If the redefinition is ever prosecuted, then the courts will rule that the government’s definition is lacking---sending lawmakers back to the chambers to come up with an enforceable definition. Depending on how willing and successful they are, determines how long the cover lasts

My concern is not the courts but the companies.

How many companies will have the stones to actually relabel their products?

However, the good news is that when it has come down to the choice of relabeling or extinction we have already seen companies willing to redefine their product—with success (cloves and roll your own).

--New Poll—
Best on line cigar shop
(a) Northerner
(b) Buysnus
(c) Getsnus

[chainsnuser]

Relabel your product and make them enforce this definition.

Don't take this too easy, Snusdog. Just check the EU snus-ban with it's definition of what is allowed and what isn't. Believe me, it's total bullshit, written by people, who don't have the slightest knowledge about what snus is in the first place, yet one cannot buy snus in any EU-country (except for Sweden and Denmark), despite of several lawsuits against this utterly idiotic ban.

From the current situation in the EU, where we can still import our snus hassle-free for personal use (simply because nobody cares about the few snusers and their small-scale business) by paying the high Swedish taxes that also finance the EU-bureaucracy to a total ban in a country like the U.S., where snus is getting real big (meaning huge tobacco-tax-losses) at the moment, is only a small step.

At the moment the EU even collects more snus-tax-revenues than when snus was still allowed, just because snus wasn't even taxed in the countries where it was sold prior to the ban (mainly The Czech Republic and Germany).

For the U.S.A. snus-imports can only mean the loss of tax-revenues. If PACT is enacted I really do not see a reason why a crappy definition should hinder an enforcement.

I'd stock up to have enough time to find a real loophole (or a workaround, or a trustable black-market-dealer) in case PACT is enacted.

Cheers!

[PsychoHazard]

I'd stock up to have enough time to find a real loophole (or a workaround, or a trustable black-market-dealer) in case PACT is enacted.

Or stock up enough to be a trustable black-market-dealer. 8)

[chadizzy1]

An article I found today.

http://www.nacsonline.com/NACS/News/...ND1120092.aspx

[lxskllr]

I'd line every snus tin with a tobacco leaf. Voila, try our new puck shaped cigar; The new shape for the 21st century!

[texasmade]

or make every tin layered and hardened tobacco leafs dipped in polyurethane

[Snusdog]

I'd line every snus tin with a tobacco leaf. Voila, try our new puck shaped cigar; The new shape for the 21st century!

Just sell snuff and snus as cigar filler and offer prefab cigar wraping for sale.

Disclaimer: our cigar fillers are for those who enjoy the taste of cigars without the need for lighting up.

[ares703]

Pact

Sage, smokeless tobacco tax in NC is now 12% but you can get a dealer's license for $10 so if this thing passes you could become a "dealer" and still legally
get it shipped to you.

[sagedil]

Welcome to Snuson ares703

Even 12% isn't really much, what $0.30 on a can of snus?? The issue is just being able to still get it. I like that dealer idea. :lol: :lol:

[GoVegan]

PACT

I found a pretty good article on why the PACT Act may only be the tip of the iceberg for snus users. It shows how the FDA banned flavored cigarettes and that some types of snus may also fall in that category as well.

http://www.snusguru.com/