Are Grizzly products okay for first time trying?

[Liandri]

Once again, those statements are completely dependent on the user.

I must disagree (I think if I understand you correctly). Just like many of the Ex-Smokers on here who have discovered the beauty of snus and the "harm reduction" benefit of using it as opposed to lighting one up, I to have found this to be the case for me personally to have kicked the "Copenhagen" dip habit. I've even tried other forms of American chew/dip in my lip over the years both loose and pouch. They all require me to spit and I still occasionally suffered from heartburn. I would occasionally get mysterious sores in my mouth and constantly had "leather ridged gums", sometimes a bit painful. With snus, I get none of these detrimental effects.

Also, I believe it has been documented numerous times that the current American Smokeless dip tobacco(s) have various questionable additives that aren't exactly considered 'food grade' and far from health safe as opposed to the cleaner and more refined swedish 'snus' standards which as mentioned, a lot of this very fact has to do with the pasteurization for snus production vs.s the chew/dip "fire cured" process.

So it is my opinion based on much research and my own first hand experience that swedish based snus is MUCH safer being the less harmful form of tobacco for anyone 'hooked' or 'requiring' nicotine consumption. Nasal snuff arguably could be ranked right there at the bottom with snus also - I'm still looking into that one.

god damn, here come the snus Zealots. Ok let me put it another way, I've dipped for 20+ years and snus'd for 10. MY personal opinions and experiences showed 0 ill effects of my dip habit. There, your theory and logic is useless and debunked. God people get over yourselves. Questionable additives? Lets see them. Go on and show them. Shall I also point my pinky up in the air when I mention your "cleaner and more refined" snus like some pompous idiot?

ALso according to at least

http://www.ussmokeless.com/en/cms/Pr...d/default.aspx

Nicotine content is close to the same in pounch vs. 1 gram of loose. I'm sure grizzy pouches are pretty much the same as well in that espect. Pouches are just for a mess free moist snuff.

[LaZeR]

god damn, here come the snus Zealots.....

Sorry. :twisted:

INGREDIENTS:

1. TOBACCO
2. NICOTINE - an addictive drug.
3. SWEETENERS - to counter the bitter tobacco taste, can cause tooth decay.
4. ABRASIVES: FIBRE GLASS/SAND - the tobacco leaves themselves can cause abrasions or small cuts in your mouth which lets more nicotine get into your bloodstream, but companies actually put fibre glass and sand in their product to cut you faster and deeper.
5. SALT - can damage the kidneys and cause irregular blood pressure.
6. 28 CARCINOGENS - cancer causing agents (I am listing the ones I am aware of below)
7. TOBACCO SPECIFIC NITROSAMINES - formed during growing, curing, fermenting, and aging of tobacco. Levels detected in smokeless tobacco products are way higher than levels of nitrosamines allowed in foods such as bacon and beer (found to be very carcinogenic and mutagenic in laboratory animals).
8. FORMALDEHYDE - cancer causing embalming fluid.
9. ACETALDEHYDE - cancer causing irritant.
10. CROTONALDEHYDE - (a cancer causing whitish liquid with pungent and suffocating odor, C4H6O, soluble in water, used as a solvent, in tear gas, and in organic synthesis)
11. HYDRAZINE - cancer causing toxic chemical.
12. ARSENIC - (a grayish-white cancer causing element having a metallic luster, vaporizing when heated, and forming poisonous compounds.)
13. NICKEL
14. CADMIUM - cancer causing agent used in car batteries.
15. POLONIUM 210 - cancer causing agent found in nuclear waste.
16. LEAD - a nerve poison.
17. N-NITROSAMINO ACIDS - cancer causing agent.
18. VOLATILE N-NITROSAMINES - cancer causing agent.
19. BENZO(A)PYRENE - another cancer causing chemical.
20. APROXIMATELY 2000 OTHER CHEMICALS

Source: http://www.jasmindalton.com/chewing-tobacco

[Liandri]

I apologize as well.

I'm aggravated and short because I'm playing Legends of Zelda: Ocarina of time and I'm STUCK IN THE GOD DAMNED WATER TEMPLE! But my rant still stands.

http://www.swedishmatch.com/en/Our-b...omposite-list/

Look under Moist snuff pl0x?

[sagedil]

Welcome to Snuson RobertC

You come to a snus forum, there is obviously a strong bias for snus here. I have only briefly ever used any American dip, and not nearly as good as snus, not even close, buit that may just be me.

Yes, as a smoker, ANY smokeless tobacco is way better for you. Traditionally, snus has had way lower TSNA;'s than dip, because it isn't fire cured (The heating of tobacco is what causes carcinogens). But American dip has been getting better.

Best advice, try both and see what you like best.

[justintempler]

god damn, here come the snus Zealots. Ok let me put it another way, I've dipped for 20+ years and snus'd for 10. MY personal opinions and experiences showed 0 ill effects of my dip habit. There, your theory and logic is useless and debunked. God people get over yourselves. Questionable additives? Lets see them. Go on and show them. Shall I also point my pinky up in the air when I mention your "cleaner and more refined" snus like some pompous idiot?

ALso according to at least

http://www.ussmokeless.com/en/cms/Pr...d/default.aspx

Nicotine content is close to the same in pounch vs. 1 gram of loose. I'm sure grizzy pouches are pretty much the same as well in that espect. Pouches are just for a mess free moist snuff.

I've never used it but I hate when people badmouth dip.

Dip has come along way towards refining it's manufacturing process and lowering their TSNAs. The dip of today is almost as safe as our beloved Swedish snus.

Dippers are our friends not our enemies.

Nicotine content can be the same, the question is the pH level the same?
pH determines the amount of free nicotine available.

[lxskllr]

Sorry. :twisted:

INGREDIENTS:

1. TOBACCO
2. NICOTINE - an addictive drug.
3. SWEETENERS - to counter the bitter tobacco taste, can cause tooth decay.
4. ABRASIVES: FIBRE GLASS/SAND - the tobacco leaves themselves can cause abrasions or small cuts in your mouth which lets more nicotine get into your bloodstream, but companies actually put fibre glass and sand in their product to cut you faster and deeper.
5. SALT - can damage the kidneys and cause irregular blood pressure.
6. 28 CARCINOGENS - cancer causing agents (I am listing the ones I am aware of below)
7. TOBACCO SPECIFIC NITROSAMINES - formed during growing, curing, fermenting, and aging of tobacco. Levels detected in smokeless tobacco products are way higher than levels of nitrosamines allowed in foods such as bacon and beer (found to be very carcinogenic and mutagenic in laboratory animals).
8. FORMALDEHYDE - cancer causing embalming fluid.
9. ACETALDEHYDE - cancer causing irritant.
10. CROTONALDEHYDE - (a cancer causing whitish liquid with pungent and suffocating odor, C4H6O, soluble in water, used as a solvent, in tear gas, and in organic synthesis)
11. HYDRAZINE - cancer causing toxic chemical.
12. ARSENIC - (a grayish-white cancer causing element having a metallic luster, vaporizing when heated, and forming poisonous compounds.)
13. NICKEL
14. CADMIUM - cancer causing agent used in car batteries.
15. POLONIUM 210 - cancer causing agent found in nuclear waste.
16. LEAD - a nerve poison.
17. N-NITROSAMINO ACIDS - cancer causing agent.
18. VOLATILE N-NITROSAMINES - cancer causing agent.
19. BENZO(A)PYRENE - another cancer causing chemical.
20. APROXIMATELY 2000 OTHER CHEMICALS

Source: http://www.jasmindalton.com/chewing-tobacco

I'd take that list with a 50# bag of kosher salt :^D

Some are half truths, and some are outright lies, fibreglass?!?! There's many chemicals and elements that occur in ALL plants in low levels. You could find as many carcinogens in just about any commonly eaten vegetable. That list is a little disingenuous, and is typical of the anti tobacco zealots.

[LaZeR]

I've never used it but I hate when people badmouth dip.

Dip has come along way towards refining it's manufacturing process and lowering their TSNAs. The dip of today is almost as safe as our beloved Swedish snus.

Dippers are our friends not our enemies.

Nicotine content can be the same, the question is the pH level the same?
pH determines the amount of free nicotine available.

Having been an Ex-dipper for the past 30 years, whilst I'm not trying to make any enemies amongst current "dippers" of American Smokeless tobaccos, am simply pointing out that both personally and with my researching, it is my conclusion that I am much better off with snus and I will continue to recommend and attempt to persuade both my smoking & dipping pals of the plus's which I feel snus has over dip.

My goal here was not to rip down on dip as much as to attempt to point the OP in what I feel is a bit safer and cleaner "smokeless" alternative instead of getting that experience with smokeless tobacco by that which usually requires spitting and what I have found to be more abrasive and problematic to gum tissue and teeth staining, ect...

To each his own though but admittedly I am a bit confused atm as to the "equal playing field" attitude between Swedish Snus & American Dip by some folks in here. :? Hell, I thought I did a positive thing when switching from copenhagen to snus. I am just used to hearing this sort of argument from the anti-tobacco crowd who all to commonly group ALL forms of tobacco together as equally harmful.

PS: Damn, you can tell I've had to do my homework and constantly try to defend and point out the + sides to my new habit on the home front. ops: Maybe I am just full of shit like my fiance tries to tell me.

[shikitohno]

Although I don't personally like it, I feel like I need to step in for the defence of dip. First, there's no fibreglass in dip, or sand. It's salt crystals people. You could taste the sand if that's what it was, but you'll taste salt. Aside from dip pre-dating the advent of fibreglass, not only would adding fibreglass to dip make it astronomically expensive, but would inhibit nicotine absorption. Anyone ever touched insulation without gloves on? Now imagine feeling that in your hands and mouth every time you packed a lip.

Tobacco specific nitrosamines occur in all tobacco products, and for dip and snus, they're becoming closer to the same numbers.

Nickel, cadmium, lead and several of the other chemicals listed there occur naturally in soil, so anything grown in soil is almost guaranteed to contain some. Polonium-210 occurs in phosphate fertilizers, and will show up in just about anything grown in them in trace amounts.

Personally, I think snus is better for one's health than dip, but there's a lot of ignorance about dip, even amongst dippers. Hell, I only used it for a month before I switched to snus, and I have to explain to people who've dipped for 5 years why there couldn't be fibreglass in it.

[Snusdog]

Seems I’ve come to the party kind of late. Let me throw in here. Every one knows that Snus and dip are made the same way with the same ingredients. Both are simply Tobacco leaf, salt, and health food all natural flavors. Both are great for you and make the chicks dig you.

Then somebody please explain one thing to this ol dog

WHY IN THE HELL IS DIP LEFT OUT FOR MONTHS- WHILE IT IS SHIPPED, SHELVED, AND SOLD- BUT SNUS (same great leaf same all natural flavors) GOES DRY WITHIN A WEEK OR TWO WITHOUT REFRIGERATION

But no forgive me, I am jaded. AMARICAN TOBACCO would never LIE about what goes into their product. Crazy law suit settlements withstanding.

And for the record, I dipped for over 20 years. A good number of my friends are still dipping. I don’t have to hate to say snus is safer.

I also don’t need a damn lab to tell me that contact with, say, acid feels different than contact with Jello.

Give em hell Laz

and Liandri, you can’t just poke your pinky finger out. It is to be distended at ever so slight an angle.


.

[LaZeR]

Seems I’ve come to the party kind of late. Let me throw in here. Every one knows that Snus and dip are made the same way with the same ingredients. Both are simply Tobacco leaf, salt, and health food all natural flavors. Both are great for you and make the chicks dig you.

Then somebody please explain one thing to this ol dog

WHY IN THE HELL IS DIP LEFT OUT FOR MONTHS- WHILE IT IS SHIPPED, SHELVED, AND SOLD- BUT SNUS (same great leaf same all natural flavors) GOES DRY WITHIN A WEEK OR TWO WITHOUT REFRIGERATION

But no forgive me, I am jaded. AMARICAN TOBACCO would never LIE about what goes into their product. Crazy law suit settlements withstanding.

And for the record, I dipped for over 20 years. A good number of my friends are still dipping. I don’t have to hate to say snus is safer.

I also don’t need a damn lab to tell me that contact with, say, acid feels different than contact with Jello.

Give em hell Laz

and Liandri, you can’t just poke your pinky finger out. It is to be distended at ever so slight an angle.


.

Thank you SnusDog. I almost left work to run to the local sheetz and pick up a can of Copenhagen Snuff and say to hell with this Swedish snus (snoose) shit. I mean since those canker sores, washboarded gums, lip stains, & spit-toons are all illusionary, I might as well revert back to the shit that satisfied me for 30 years whilst partaking of my 3 fingered pinches going through $4 a day vs.s $3 every 3rd day. :roll:

Damn and to think I almost fell for their tricks. :evil: Damn American Tobacco has spies amongst us I reckon.

[Veganpunk]

[quote="Liandri"]I apologize as well.

I'm aggravated and short because I'm playing Legends of Zelda: Ocarina of time and I'm STUCK IN THE GOD DAMNED WATER TEMPLE! But my rant still stands.



That water temple still haunts me to this day.

[NorSnuser]

INGREDIENTS:

1. TOBACCO
2. NICOTINE - an addictive drug.
3. SWEETENERS - to counter the bitter tobacco taste, can cause tooth decay.
4. ABRASIVES: FIBRE GLASS/SAND - the tobacco leaves themselves can cause abrasions or small cuts in your mouth which lets more nicotine get into your bloodstream, but companies actually put fibre glass and sand in their product to cut you faster and deeper.
5. SALT - can damage the kidneys and cause irregular blood pressure.
6. 28 CARCINOGENS - cancer causing agents (I am listing the ones I am aware of below)
7. TOBACCO SPECIFIC NITROSAMINES - formed during growing, curing, fermenting, and aging of tobacco. Levels detected in smokeless tobacco products are way higher than levels of nitrosamines allowed in foods such as bacon and beer (found to be very carcinogenic and mutagenic in laboratory animals).
8. FORMALDEHYDE - cancer causing embalming fluid.
9. ACETALDEHYDE - cancer causing irritant.
10. CROTONALDEHYDE - (a cancer causing whitish liquid with pungent and suffocating odor, C4H6O, soluble in water, used as a solvent, in tear gas, and in organic synthesis)
11. HYDRAZINE - cancer causing toxic chemical.
12. ARSENIC - (a grayish-white cancer causing element having a metallic luster, vaporizing when heated, and forming poisonous compounds.)
13. NICKEL
14. CADMIUM - cancer causing agent used in car batteries.
15. POLONIUM 210 - cancer causing agent found in nuclear waste.
16. LEAD - a nerve poison.
17. N-NITROSAMINO ACIDS - cancer causing agent.
18. VOLATILE N-NITROSAMINES - cancer causing agent.
19. BENZO(A)PYRENE - another cancer causing chemical.
20. APROXIMATELY 2000 OTHER CHEMICALS

Source: http://www.jasmindalton.com/chewing-tobacco

This sort of exagerrated "information" has been widely debunked by serious researchers. lxskllr is right, you get more of many of those ingredients in a lot of the food you eat.

http://www.smokersonly.org/product_f...taminants.html

[groverthesnake]

Seems I’ve come to the party kind of late. Let me throw in here. Every one knows that Snus and dip are made the same way with the same ingredients. Both are simply Tobacco leaf, salt, and health food all natural flavors. Both are great for you and make the chicks dig you.

Then somebody please explain one thing to this ol dog

WHY IN THE HELL IS DIP LEFT OUT FOR MONTHS- WHILE IT IS SHIPPED, SHELVED, AND SOLD- BUT SNUS (same great leaf same all natural flavors) GOES DRY WITHIN A WEEK OR TWO WITHOUT REFRIGERATION

But no forgive me, I am jaded. AMARICAN TOBACCO would never LIE about what goes into their product. Crazy law suit settlements withstanding.

And for the record, I dipped for over 20 years. A good number of my friends are still dipping. I don’t have to hate to say snus is safer.

I also don’t need a damn lab to tell me that contact with, say, acid feels different than contact with Jello.

Give em hell Laz

and Liandri, you can’t just poke your pinky finger out. It is to be distended at ever so slight an angle.


.

Thank you SnusDog. I almost left work to run to the local sheetz and pick up a can of Copenhagen Snuff and say to hell with this Swedish snus (snoose) shit. I mean since those canker sores, washboarded gums, lip stains, & spit-toons are all illusionary, I might as well revert back to the shit that satisfied me for 30 years whilst partaking of my 3 fingered pinches going through $4 a day vs.s $3 every 3rd day. :roll:

Damn and to think I almost fell for their tricks. :evil: Damn American Tobacco has spies amongst us I reckon.

LaZeR, I dipped Copenhagen/Grizzly for 30+ years. My experiences with moist American "dip" mirror what you have said.
If it were not for the.............constant mouth sores + wrinkled cheek tissue + bad breath + sore throat + white tongue patches + heartburn + receding gums + loss of taste sensitivity and fatigue....................I'd still be dipping.

[Liandri]

I've kept snus out weeks on end and Its gotten just as dry as any moist snuff would get if kept out the same amount of time. I'm bowing out of this thread there are way too many bias'd fools with a pissing contest complex around that have been using their novelty product for less than a year and think its got great gift to the world.

Look up the snus and health section and just try to tell me have the shit that is caused by moist snuff isn't in there in some form caused by snus. Oh but I guess all those "reseeding gums, pickled lips, and intolerance towards swallowing" are just child's play conditions and are only a hurdle to pass to be one of the great connoisseurs of such a awe-inspiring product.

Listen unlike you, I'm simply telling the base what it is for what its worth strait up. It is a tobacco product and each product, whether it me orally, inhaled, anally, or nostrily, EACH carry there own respected health hazards and precautions. Robert, You do what you feel is best. Try both! But if it were really up to me, I'd suggest you don't try either at all and focus on quitting the premature habit, in your case. Snus isn't worth it. Dip isn't worth it. Smoking isn't worth it.

[groverthesnake]

People that dipped 1-2 cans/day of Copenhagen or Skoal etc. for 20-30 years before converting to Swedish Snus, understand.
Anybody else commenting on the subject, don't know what the hell they're talking about.