Are Grizzly products okay for first time trying?

[Snusdog]

I've kept snus out weeks on end and Its gotten just as dry as any moist snuff would get if kept out the same amount of time. I'm bowing out of this thread there are way too many bias'd fools with a pissing contest complex around that have been using their novelty product for less than a year and think its got great gift to the world.

Look up the snus and health section and just try to tell me have the shit that is caused by moist snuff isn't in there in some form caused by snus. Oh but I guess all those "reseeding gums, pickled lips, and intolerance towards swallowing" are just child's play conditions and are only a hurdle to pass to be one of the great connoisseurs of such a awe-inspiring product.

Listen unlike you, I'm simply telling the base what it is for what its worth strait up. It is a tobacco product and each product, whether it me orally, inhaled, anally, or nostrily, EACH carry there own respected health hazards and precautions. Robert, You do what you feel is best. Try both! But if it were really up to me, I'd suggest you don't try either at all and focus on quitting the premature habit, in your case. Snus isn't worth it. Dip isn't worth it. Smoking isn't worth it.

Liandri, I am sorry to see you bowing out of the conversation. I think this point is very important and that it should be discussed (without the pissing of course). Little background about me- I dipped for over 20 years and have used snus now for 3 years. Thus I don’t really think that the issue for me is one of novelty. Rather, it is a matter of conviction, personal experience, and a little research thrown in on the side.

And yes I agree that every form of Tobacco, (as well as sports, diet, and transportation for that matter) all carry their own risks. But that does not mean those risks are equivalent or even comparable.

I also agree with your advice to Robert to go tobacco free if he can, if for no other reason than cost and convenience.

I too have read the health section and have chimed in on a lot of threads that deal with particular concerns or occurrences. It is my opinion though, that most issues that are raised are of a very different nature to those raised with dip. Likewise they tend to be more isolated. Thus someone is allergic to rose oil and thus found swallowing difficult after using Skruf; or someone new to snus had sore gums due to salt abrasion (verses the chemical type burn I used to get with dip). Thus, I’m not sure that any sort of blanket statement will really serve to carry the discussion forward in any significant way.

Finally, I used to buy a month’s worth of Timber Wolf at a time and keep it in my desk. No problem. By contrast, I just finished a fresh can of Kronan. I kept it in the fridge the whole time. In three days, it was noticeably dryer and much harder to bake than when it was first opened.

Regardless I think your input would be helpful as long as we all can keep from digressing into mere accusations, speculations, and name calling. Thus, I’ll add my two cents shortly.

[Snusdog]

The two cents:

One thing to keep in mind as we discuss this is that there are many phases to tobacco production. Most of the lists that I see only provide those ingredients that are added at the final phase of production, such as the flavors, sweeteners, bonding agents, and preservatives. However there are a lot of other places where things can slip in that won’t necessarily be “included” on an ingredient lists. This is where the issue gets grey for me. This is where too many things all point in the same direction not to warrant real concern. For example

1. Vast difference in shelf life between the two products
2. The vast difference in the oral related problems between the two products (cancer, gum disease, etc...).
3. My own experience with dip (dip lip, heart burn, white spots) and seeing this same experience repeated over and over again by those who used dip (especially but not limited to those who dipped heavily over an extended period of time)
4. The absolute lack of any such experience with snus (dip lip, heart burn, white spots, etc…)
5. This one is big: the very different type of withdrawal I undergo with dip verses snus- together with the very different and pronounced type of “buzz” I got when revisiting dip a few months ago, even though I chain snus daily {note: it is not uncommon for me to smoke a very strong English pipe tobacco while simultaneously enjoying a pris Skruf stark- My point is that the effect of dip is not due to nicotine alone. I know St. Nic well. We go way back. There is more to it and this more to it, is a different sort thing all together}
6. The inability of a single tobacco company (at home or abroad) to produce a Copenhagen equivalent under Swedish purity standards. This becomes even more striking once you realize (a) the extreme profitability this single product would represent (b) the effort by most snus companies to produce an American equivalent (notice all the wintergreen) and (c) that Swedish Match not only knows how to make a Copenhagen like dip, they already produces and sell it in mass quantities (Red Man dip)

The point of the matter is this: when my wife and kids all come in and say the fridge in the garage is making funny sounds, I don’t respond by saying “I’m sorry, are any of you trained refrigeration experts?” or “I’m sorry, your experience is only antidotal data based on a subjective and psychological preference for particular sound waves. NO! I wait for a time out in the game or a commercial and then I get my ass up and go see what the hell is causing everybody to say the exact same thing about my fridge.

And one more point- lets not confuse a genuine concern with silly stories about fiberglass and cow dung. I’m nowhere near that ball park in this post.

Bottom line: there is a significant difference between the two products. You may be able to hide or obfuscate that difference on the front end but you cannot cover the effect those differences register repeatedly on the back end.

Love (doggie style)
SD 8)

[LaZeR]

People that dipped 1-2 cans/day of Copenhagen or Skoal etc. for 20-30 years before converting to Swedish Snus, understand.
Anybody else commenting on the subject, don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Amen & +1

Liandri No offense intended directly at you and yes, my ingredients link was done in a bit of a scramble to simply back up my personal experience as noted in having dipped the spit snuff for 30 years and knowing it's effects. All I'm saying is so far unless it is illusionary, my experience with 'snus' feels much cleaner and safer based on the condition of my mouth, absolutely no more heartburn or acid reflux, and an overall better feeling day to day. I never realized how much that Copenhagen dip was dragging me down until I quit it finally and I'm proud of that accomplishment and what I've found as a replacement in snus and nasal snuff.

-Better on my health.
-Cleaner habit in public & those close to me.
-Less expensive for me vs.s the amount of Copenhagen I relied on daily.

Yes I believe in "Harm Reduction" and I also believe I am practicing it so I will be vocal on this matter and state my case.

[tom502]

If I was gonna dip, I'd dip dry Scotch Snuff. This is actually very good, to me. I don't have any on hand, but I might pick some up this weekend. For some reason I am wanting some.