PACT UPDATE in the House, unfinished business...

[PsychoHazard]

Then the PACT ACT shouldn't be as much of a problem as you're seeing it. Yeah yeah "Freedom gone" "Taxation without representation" "etc etc etc" who cares? You can't do anything about it so why even complain other than to hear yourself vent because of personal frustration?

PACT ACT is going to happen. Snus will be higher in price, potentially lower in amount to be ordered at any given time, and quite possiblly might limit your options. Quit, deal with it, find another way, move on. Simple as that people. No sense in analyzing it, unless you are a butt sore congressman openly voicing your opinion on a forum and at the same time keeping secret about your identity.

Yeah, bend over and take it, kid.

Unconstitutional Patriot Act - Who Cares?

Fraudulent Bailouts - Who Cares?

Naked Body Scanners (Guilty until proven innocent) - Who Cares?

9/11 False Flag Attack - Who Cares?

Removing Corporate Campaign Contribution Limits - Who Cares?

Fear mongering about the flu to scare people into buying vaccines - Who Cares?

STILL fighting in Iraq - Who Cares?

STILL fighting in Afghanistan - Who Cares?

Flouridated water - Who Cares?

Chemtrails - Who Cares?

Police Brutality - Who Cares?

CIA importing drugs - Who Cares?

Constant lies from the media - Who Cares?

etc, etc - Who Cares?

__________________________________________

If our forefathers cared as little as this generation cares then there would be no United States of America.

Right on brother.

I second that.

[truthwolf1]

Then the PACT ACT shouldn't be as much of a problem as you're seeing it. Yeah yeah "Freedom gone" "Taxation without representation" "etc etc etc" who cares? You can't do anything about it so why even complain other than to hear yourself vent because of personal frustration?

PACT ACT is going to happen. Snus will be higher in price, potentially lower in amount to be ordered at any given time, and quite possiblly might limit your options. Quit, deal with it, find another way, move on. Simple as that people. No sense in analyzing it, unless you are a butt sore congressman openly voicing your opinion on a forum and at the same time keeping secret about your identity.

Yeah, bend over and take it, kid.

Unconstitutional Patriot Act - Who Cares?

Fraudulent Bailouts - Who Cares?

Naked Body Scanners (Guilty until proven innocent) - Who Cares?

9/11 False Flag Attack - Who Cares?

Removing Corporate Campaign Contribution Limits - Who Cares?

Fear mongering about the flu to scare people into buying vaccines - Who Cares?

STILL fighting in Iraq - Who Cares?

STILL fighting in Afghanistan - Who Cares?

Flouridated water - Who Cares?

Chemtrails - Who Cares?

Police Brutality - Who Cares?

CIA importing drugs - Who Cares?

Constant lies from the media - Who Cares?

etc, etc - Who Cares?

__________________________________________

If our forefathers cared as little as this generation cares then there would be no United States of America.

Right on brother.

I second that.

Good list, I third it!

[texasmade]

Then the PACT ACT shouldn't be as much of a problem as you're seeing it. Yeah yeah "Freedom gone" "Taxation without representation" "etc etc etc" who cares? You can't do anything about it so why even complain other than to hear yourself vent because of personal frustration?

PACT ACT is going to happen. Snus will be higher in price, potentially lower in amount to be ordered at any given time, and quite possiblly might limit your options. Quit, deal with it, find another way, move on. Simple as that people. No sense in analyzing it, unless you are a butt sore congressman openly voicing your opinion on a forum and at the same time keeping secret about your identity.

Yeah, bend over and take it, kid.

Unconstitutional Patriot Act - Who Cares?

Fraudulent Bailouts - Who Cares?

Naked Body Scanners (Guilty until proven innocent) - Who Cares?

9/11 False Flag Attack - Who Cares?

Removing Corporate Campaign Contribution Limits - Who Cares?

Fear mongering about the flu to scare people into buying vaccines - Who Cares?

STILL fighting in Iraq - Who Cares?

STILL fighting in Afghanistan - Who Cares?

Flouridated water - Who Cares?

Chemtrails - Who Cares?

Police Brutality - Who Cares?

CIA importing drugs - Who Cares?

Constant lies from the media - Who Cares?

etc, etc - Who Cares?

__________________________________________

If our forefathers cared as little as this generation cares then there would be no United States of America.

Right on brother.

I second that.

Good list, I third it!

fourth

[Liandri]

OH YEY ANOTHER POLITICAL THREAD!

You can't do anything about it, so why complain? Why cry? Why justify your means with some list of other political BS? Simple fact remains....
DEAL WITH IT! There is absolutely nothing that you or anyone else from this forum can do about it. Unless the president doesn't sign it, it'll get harder. But it won't be impossible.

And yes nicotine treats bad stuff. But I don't see a doctor prescribing you Snus, snuff, pipe, the occasional cigarette, and whatever else you are *choosing* to use. Nicotine supplements are used in those studies NOT a tobacco product.

[sgreger1]

@Defepic, so true man. How long will we say "Oh well, gov didn't represent us yet again, but what can we do <---- this is how English peasants thought. This is why we left England.

@Liandri: You've go t a point. Honestly nothing we really can do about this at this point. No reason the pres wouldn't sign this, as he did it already once during his term. But your right, nicotene supplements were likely used in those studies and no Dr would recommend you start smoking to cure what ail's ya. But cummon man, snus is relitavely safe in the broad scope of things, so why not get a little pleasure and flavor out of it while you at it? Your being too tough on this thing. Coming to a snus forum and telling everyone "f@ck yo snus!" is not going to be recieved very well lol

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

this is how English peasants thought. This is why we left England.

+1

...and it's nice to see that some of you guys are fed up as well.

[NorSnuser]

OH YEY ANOTHER POLITICAL THREAD!

You can't do anything about it, so why complain? Why cry? Why justify your means with some list of other political BS? Simple fact remains....
DEAL WITH IT! There is absolutely nothing that you or anyone else from this forum can do about it. Unless the president doesn't sign it, it'll get harder. But it won't be impossible.

And yes nicotine treats bad stuff. But I don't see a doctor prescribing you Snus, snuff, pipe, the occasional cigarette, and whatever else you are *choosing* to use. Nicotine supplements are used in those studies NOT a tobacco product.

I agree that there is nothing we can do about the law being passed. We will have to deal with it, but the first response to anything unpleasant is anger and denial. I think it's o.k. for people to vent.

I'm probably not a common case but I use snus for a tic disorder. My doctor knows about my usage and prefers that I use snus over a potent antipsychotic that can cause brain damage, long term movement disorders, and other nasty stuff like "sudden death". Snus is a no-brainer choice for me. It's either that or a pharmaceutical drug with a black box warning. I tried the patch and gum. I have TMJ and can't use the gum (and I hate it) and the patch wasn't nearly as effective as snus.

It's also relevant to mention that ~50-75% of the mentally ill smoke cigarettes. I haven't seen numbers on smokeless tobacco usage. Many studies state that tobacco is used for self medication in the mentally ill population. I don't want to sound paranoid but the pharmaceutical companies seem to be very interested in eventually replacing tobacco with their drugs.

Replacing big tobacco with big pharma is like going from the frying pan into the fire. Smoking only cuts ~10 years off your life, whereas people treated with potent psychiatric medication are losing 15-25 years of their lives depending on the study being looked at.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...-illness_N.htm

P.S. So, not stirring anything up with you personally Liandri, just posting my viewpoint that's related to the topic.

[sgreger1]

this is how English peasants thought. This is why we left England.

+1

...and it's nice to see that some of you guys are fed up as well.

The nation is fed up, and people are becoming more vocal about their positions on things now that they see our leaders plan to quickly change our entire system.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/44382-1...egate_friendly

Congress getting 100k calls per hour for 4 consecutive days, can only handle 50,000.

[LaZeR]

.... Coming to a snus forum and telling everyone "f@ck yo snus!" is not going to be recieved very well lol

In Liandri's defense, I think he's been pissed every since I hinted there was fiberglass shavings in American Smokeless dips. Nevertheless, I do feel this forum is more than an appropriate place to vent our frustrations about this BS law whether political or not. The majority of us obviously have a use or desire for snus or else I would assume we wouldn't be participating here unless we just wanted to troll which admittedly can be entertaining to some degree in 'certain' forums that piss one off.

With that said, I do believe Liandri loves his tobaccos just like all of us. He just has a different take on some of the concerns and frustrations we present at times.

And now I ask myself the age old :?:

[sagedil]

And yes nicotine treats bad stuff. But I don't see a doctor prescribing you Snus, snuff, pipe, the occasional cigarette, and whatever else you are *choosing* to use. Nicotine supplements are used in those studies NOT a tobacco product.

Actually, if you had ever read at least some of the ten threads I have posted over several years listing out all the studies I have ever found that have shown nicotine to be as effective as Ritalin in treating ADHD. And I have posted links to the studies on multiple threads, you would see that you are now completely and utterly wrong. Many of the studies, especially the earliest ones, actually only studied smokers. Yes, some of the later studies also used Pharma nicotine. But ALL the studies have shown a clear link detailing the benefits that nicotine bring to the treatment of ADHD

You condescending dismissal of this is rather insulting to those of us who have done our homework. You make it seem like we are just somehow lying to ourselves???

The first study to show the effects of nicotine on ADHD was done about 6 years ago. Researchers noted that teenagers with ADHD smoked at a rate of about 65%, compared with the 23% smoking rate of all teenagers. At first, the assumption was that there was spmeting about ADHD that caused the kids to smoke. But as they looked into it, they realized that the kids were just self medicating. Numerous studies since then have proven the effectiveness of nicotine to treat ADHD.

Below is just a few links if you are interested in learning more.

http://www.uvm.edu/~psych/news/archi...r_nicotine.pdf

http://www.docguide.com/news/content...256DDD004D95F8

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/...44050&GT1=8546

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=2446482

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8927677

[/quote]


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8927677[/quote][/quote]

A few more, from a post I did on snuffhouse about this....



This is very interesting.

I will not give up nicotine for medical reasons. I have switched to snus, and soon will add snuff to my mix.

Up until the tobacco settlement, no serious scientist would study nicotine, it was just too politically charged. But after the settlement, it seemed to lift the self imposed restrictions on nicotine study. One of the first was on teenagers with ADHD. Scientists had noticed that about 73% of teenagers with ADHD, that compared to 23% in the general population. Scientists had assumed there was something about ADHD that made the teenagers smoke, but as they looked at the data, they realized it might be something in the nicotine. Followup studies have since proven that nicotine is about as effective as Ritalin in treating ADHD. I know, in my own case, it makes a HUGE difference. As a meth head from the late 8-'s, I simply won't use amphetamines to treat my ADHD, so I keep using nicotine.

http://www.trdrp.org/research/PageGr...?grant_id=3960

http://www.uvm.edu/~psych/news/archi...r_nicotine.pdf

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/...ntid=100144050

http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/200.html


Wow, here is another post with more links

[quote="sagedil"]

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/adhd/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100144227

In a 2004 Psychopharmacology article, Dr. Newhouse and Alexandra Potter, Ph.D., reported that the high smoking rate among adolescents and adults with ADHD could be explained by their discovery that nicotine improves aspects of their mental functioning. Potter is recruiting people for two ADHD trials — one involving nicotine and the other a drug called mecamylamine, which blocks certain nicotinic receptors.

http://www.trdrp.org/research/PageGr...?grant_id=3960

http://www.uvm.edu/~psych/news/archi...r_nicotine.pdf

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00573248

http://www.addadhdblog.com/adhd-medi...nicotine-next/

My story from a year ago of the effects when I quit snus....

I have posted a number of times that I have ADHD, and studies have shown nicotine is effective as Ritalin. Being a meth head from back in the late 80's, I simply can't use amphetamines to treat my ADHD, I would be abusing them within 3 days.

That said, I DID quit snus last year for about a month. I was briefly dating a woman with a heart condition, ANY nicotine, even the trace amounts in eggplant, would cause her heart problems. As the nicotine from snus is transferred through the mucus membranes, any nicotine in me was transferred back to her the same way when we kissed. So I quit.

Why I have posted that folks who say quitting snus would be easier than quitting cigarettes are fools. It isn't. We have all our own ritual habits with snus. I felt like I lost my best friends that entire month, and hardly a moment went by that I didn't think about snus. When she broke up with me, she aasked if i still wanted to stay and watch a movie with her that night. I said sure, but I needed to walk home first. To get the snus that was in my freezer. iwas unwilling to wait even an hour unnecessarily.

Having said that, should I ever find myself in the situation again, i would quit again. Love trumps. Always.

Do you really want me to go on. Do you REALLY think I don't know what I am talking about??????

[sgreger1]

*clap clap clap clap

Great post sage. A lot of people don't realize that pharmaceuticals are not for everyone, especially if there is an alternative

"Being a meth head from back in the late 80's, I simply can't use amphetamines to treat my ADHD, I would be abusing them within 3 days."

I know what you mean. I went through a period of depression and something similar to your ADHD thing and the Dr wanted to give me all kinds of drugs that were really nothing more than legal street drugs in pill form. This is unacceptable to me as I would share a similar fate to yours.


This is also why I don't think we should support the new trend that states that we outlaw supplements and anything not approved by the FDA for treating anything. Some people are sensitive to things in these pills (like me) and there are better alternatives available at a cheaper price that are twice as effective. I was on an antidepressant for a few months and after I stopped taking it (because of the side effects) I felt like I was going through withdrawl. The Dr's claimed that was impossible and noted that every study showed I was lying, yet online I found literally hundreds and hundreds of others suffering the same thing. If I knew nicotene would solve an ailment, I would GLADLY use snus as opposed to a manufactured form of meth to treat it.

[timoteo]

OH YEY ANOTHER POLITICAL THREAD!

You can't do anything about it, so why complain? Why cry? Why justify your means with some list of other political BS? Simple fact remains....

BOYCOT AMERICA. MOVE TO MEXICO OR CANADA WHERE THEY TREAT THERE CITIZENS WITH ALOT MORE RESPECT. No, i do know what im talking about.. AMERICA IS GUILTY OF GENOCIDE AND HOLOCOST. THIS BRUTALITY AGAINST MAN IS A SIN AND POLOTICANS AND POLICE WILL PAY AND SUFFER WHEN THERE JUDGEMENT COMES. JAH KNOWS. THESE FU$CKING NAZI PEDIPHILE SOCIALIST SATAN WORSHIPERS WILL PAY. AND I AM GETTING OUT OF AMERICA ASAP, CAUSE I KNOW THERE JUDGEMENT IS COMING. LIARS AND THIEFS. PROPRIATERS OF SUFFERAGE.
I LOVE IT WHEN I HEAR ANOTHER COPS BEEN SHOT TO DEATH. I LAUGH AND LAUGH AND I THANK THE ALMIGHTY CONQUERING LION OF JUDAH!
PRAISE JAH, HALIE SELASSIE. PRAISE RASTAFARI. THIS IS REAL RELIGION.

[Roo]

Wow this is really pushing some of us over the edge...

It's okay though. I say just let everyone deal with it however they want, if that means praising the elect of god, king of kings and shit, and praising cop killers... so be it I guess. More importantly let everyone use snus for whatever goddamn reason they want and let's not get all worked up at each other. timoteo that was weird dude, but vent however you like

Edit: OK on second read that was really f*kd up... I was listening to Peter Tosh as I read that. The Cop killer bit was scary, the Jah bit was weird, and the PEDOPHILE SOCIALIST SATAN WORSHIPPERS was just funny. It's all good though it's Friday and a shitload of snus arrived at my doorstep this morning

[Bigblue1]

OH YEY ANOTHER POLITICAL THREAD!

You can't do anything about it, so why complain? Why cry? Why justify your means with some list of other political BS? Simple fact remains....

BOYCOT AMERICA. MOVE TO MEXICO OR CANADA WHERE THEY TREAT THERE CITIZENS WITH ALOT MORE RESPECT. No, i do know what im talking about.. AMERICA IS GUILTY OF GENOCIDE AND HOLOCOST. THIS BRUTALITY AGAINST MAN IS A SIN AND POLOTICANS AND POLICE WILL PAY AND SUFFER WHEN THERE JUDGEMENT COMES. JAH KNOWS. THESE FU$CKING NAZI PEDIPHILE SOCIALIST SATAN WORSHIPERS WILL PAY. AND I AM GETTING OUT OF AMERICA ASAP, CAUSE I KNOW THERE JUDGEMENT IS COMING. LIARS AND THIEFS. PROPRIATERS OF SUFFERAGE.
I LOVE IT WHEN I HEAR ANOTHER COPS BEEN SHOT TO DEATH. I LAUGH AND LAUGH AND I THANK THE ALMIGHTY CONQUERING LION OF JUDAH!
PRAISE JAH, HALIE SELASSIE. PRAISE RASTAFARI. THIS IS REAL RELIGION.

Strange...... And mexico is in free-fall all ready. Don't go there.....

[sgreger1]

BOYCOT AMERICA. MOVE TO MEXICO OR CANADA WHERE THEY TREAT THERE CITIZENS WITH ALOT MORE RESPECT. No, i do know what im talking about.. AMERICA IS GUILTY OF GENOCIDE AND HOLOCOST. THIS BRUTALITY AGAINST MAN IS A SIN AND POLOTICANS AND POLICE WILL PAY AND SUFFER WHEN THERE JUDGEMENT COMES. JAH KNOWS. THESE FU$CKING NAZI PEDIPHILE SOCIALIST SATAN WORSHIPERS WILL PAY. AND I AM GETTING OUT OF AMERICA ASAP, CAUSE I KNOW THERE JUDGEMENT IS COMING. LIARS AND THIEFS. PROPRIATERS OF SUFFERAGE.
I LOVE IT WHEN I HEAR ANOTHER COPS BEEN SHOT TO DEATH. I LAUGH AND LAUGH AND I THANK THE ALMIGHTY CONQUERING LION OF JUDAH!
PRAISE JAH, HALIE SELASSIE. PRAISE RASTAFARI. THIS IS REAL RELIGION.

While I know I shouldn't react to this obviousely trolltastic piece of trolling, I would like to point out that if you believe mexico is in better condition than the united states you have obviousely never been to mexico. The drug cartles are killing thousands and thousands of people, the place is absolutely corrupt in every way immagineable, and most Mexican nationals live on less per day than you spend on a starbucks coffee. And treat their citizens with respect???? Good god, if you think countries like mexico treat their citizens with more respect than the uS, please do move to Mexico.


I know people have wanted to have the mods shut down some of my posts and i'm against censoring but this guy is talking about praising cop killers and rejoicing in the death of law enforcement officials. This post is obviouse trolling and this rubish is not representative of how we on snus like to carry our business.