American Vs Swedish tobacco

[Paladinx]

I am curious about one thing. Why do so many people say snus is stronger than american dip? That is one thing I never really understood. Perhaps the new extra sterks might be, I never tried a thunder frosted. But the regular snus to me is definitely not stronger than american dip. Im not sure if its because of the nicotine content, or how the tobacco cuts up your mouth ,,, who really knows what the hell is in american products.

maybe pound for pound snus is stronger? im not quite sure. But I know I def feel the nicotine much more when I take a pinch of american dip like skoal or copenhagen, than i do when I take a portion. with the skoal I kind of feel like im smoking a cigarette. Sometimes I feel its too strong. Ill get sick hiccups or heartburn and my lip burns to friggin hell. Snus is so much smoother and less rough. overall I like the snus lighter taste and softness better, but once i start with the skoal. I feel like I wanna go back to skoal not snus when I get a real nicotine crave. LIke right now i keep reaching for the skoal even though I do not want to. It just seems more satisfying at times. Anyone else feel the same. ?

[lxskllr]

I haven't dipped in almost 30 years, but here's why I think dip may seem stronger...

People seem to take bigger pinches of dip than they do snus.

Dip doesn't get baked. It goes in loose, so more nicotine gets in your system faster.

From what I've read from others, dip starts off stronger, but mellows quicker than snus. I think this ties in with the baking above.

[snusjus]

Bottom lip placement has a lot to do with nicotine absorption as well. There are more salivary glands in the bottom lip, which make the transfer of nicotine into the membrane mucosa quicker and more effective.

[Owens187]

Its the chemicals, not the nicotine you crave and feel.

Oh, and the fiberglass...and the SAND! :roll:

http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=8729&highlight=

[Paladinx]

yeah size and loose might be part of it, but even when I compare it to loose snus. I think also what that other guy said, whats in it. It def cuts up your mouth much more than snus thats for sure. I can feel my gums burning when using skoal. and they say nicotine delivery in smokeless is slower? Im not sure thats true with american dip. i feel the nicotine pretty fast and hard with this crap. I am going to try not to use american dip to quit smoking too much. I dont want missing teeth lol

[LaZeR]

Its the chemicals, not the nicotine you crave and feel.

Oh, and the fiberglass...and the SAND! :roll:

http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=8729&highlight=

+1

[snusjus]

Its the chemicals, not the nicotine you crave and feel.

Oh, and the fiberglass...and the SAND! :roll:

http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=8729&highlight=

Don't forget the radioactive sludge and Chuck Norris tears.

[gambino]

meh, i don't believe most of what i read on here about dip and the horrors/chemicals/evil american corporate conspiracy.
copenhagen snuff was trademarked in 1822...ground tobacco and flavorings.
imo people want to hate on dip more so it makes them feel better about using a very similiar product.

and snus, hands down, is stronger, much stronger...think about it you are swallowing tobacco juices whereas with dip you spit.
alotta more nic get's in the body this way...thus explaining why i've personally seen heavy dip users spit out snus i gave them cause they can't hack the nic hit.

[airwoodstock]

Another thing that makes snus stronger than dip is the tobacco, actually the leaf and the filler. The leaves from higher up on the plant will have a higher Nicotine content while the bottom leaves, ribs and stalk will have lower levels. If I'm not mistaken, dips like Skoal and Cope have between 2 and 3 mg of unprotonated Nicotine per gram while snus ranges between 3 and 18 mg per gram depending on the brand.

For example, Gotlands is pretty much 9 mg per gram across their portfolio and it's due to the leaves from the higher parts of the plant that they use. American smokeless uses the lower parts of the plant which results in lower levels.

Personally, I feel a much bigger Nicotine kick with snus than I did with dip. But whole leaf chew...............now there's a Nic kick!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol:

[Snusdog]

meh, i don't believe most of what i read on here about dip and the horrors/chemicals/evil american corporate conspiracy.
copenhagen snuff was trademarked in 1822...ground tobacco and flavorings.
imo people want to hate on dip more so it makes them feel better about using a very similiar product.

Gambino just curious how long did you dip before you found snus?

The reason I ask is because most of the time when people make a statement like yours they were never long time, heavy dippers. Instead, they have only tried dip or tend just to pick up a can every blue moon or so. But rarely were they long time users. The long timer dippers tell a completely different story.

Now that said let me be quick and emphatic to add--- If you dipped for years and this is your experience and conviction then by all means state it loud and often. You and I will go round and round about it…………. but the forum (and our own understanding of the issue for that matter) will be better for the debate. For example, Liandri keeps me honest. I disagree with him quite often but I respect and appreciate his posts.

Otherwise, just be careful what you endorse and what you put your name behind. People do listen. I like to think that on this forum we take responsibility for the advice we give and do our best not just to sound off but to offer those seeking insight well thought out and informed views that can be trusted.

It’s all good bro and you have nothing but love from the pound.

FOR THE REST OF YOU…… STOP PIMPING DIP

I mean damn….. first it was the PACT ACT and now it’s dip fest 2010 on the forum

What ya’ll tryen to do to da ol dawg

:x

.

[Snusdog]

And now a word form the opposition party………………..

From the Dipper’s Guide to snus

http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=4014

The first thing that you will recognize when you switch to snus is the chemical difference between snus and dip. Call it the Swedish purity standard of snus. I dipped a lot (and now I snus a lot). O.K. I chain snus. When I dipped my lip stayed torn up all the time. I was constantly getting that, teeth hurt, gum receding, leathery creasing of the lip (AKA “Dip-Lip”). I have been snusing now for over a year and a half and the inside of my mouth stays smooth and no more dip lip at all. Also, if I went a few hours without a dip, I would get very dizzy and it was pretty hard to concentrate. Now I am not saying that after a few hours without snus that I am unaffected. However, what I realized is that what I thought was a nic fix was in fact a fix of all the other crap that American tobacco puts into their dip. For a couple of weeks after making the change to snus, my lip actually craved the dip (kid you not). Another, indication of the chemical difference is that I could not swallow dip without a great deal of heart burn. Snus is meant to be swallowed (like tea or coffee). For me the purity of snus was a major draw and motivation for me to make the change. This purity is evidenced by the low occurrence of oral cancer and gum disease in Sweden (look it up. It is well documented).

And This

For me the issue between dip and snus has never been a one to one comparison between the nicotine levels. I get nic from both products but I also get something else from dip along with the nic that I do not find in snus. Let me illustrate what I mean.

A few weeks ago my brother in law tried to kill me with several Jagermeister-Redbull shots. After a couple of shots, I could feel the effect of the all too familiar Jager. At the same time, I also could feel the very distinct effect of the Red Bull. One shot- two distinct effects.

It is the same with dip- one pinch, two distinct effects. However, I never noticed this distinction and always considered it one and the same fix until I went off of dip completely (as long as I used snus and dip together, the whatever extra was still in my system). When I made the break from dip and went to snus exclusively I noticed it missing from the fix and my gums actually craved it. Also, the withdrawals are very different between the two products. The feeling of being without snus for an extended period of time is different from what I felt when I had to go with out a dip longer than I wanted.

Now I do not have a lab and so I cannot say definitively why this is the case. However, I don’t think the answer (one way or another) is going to be found on the ingredient lists that we keep seeing. The reason is this: to the best of my knowledge, the ingredient lists that I have seen only deal with those ingredients added at the final phase of production. There are several steps prior to the mixing and flavoring stage that contribute to the final composition of the product. For example, fire curing a leaf will change its chemical composition in a way that air curing will not. Yet this important distinction will never show up on an ingredients list.

The result is that these lists along with a simple comparison of the nicotine levels will provide us with only a partial picture at best.

And this from a recent rant

I dipped for over 20 years (Timber Wolf for a good deal of the time- since it was mentioned) and there is a reason I quit. There is a reason I go to the pain in the ass of ordering snus from overseas instead of just popping down to the zip-n-go whenever I need a can. There is a reason why the PACT ACT matters and it’s not just back to dip with a ho-hum. And those reasons are every bit as important as the reasons many here left behind cigarettes.

A year before snus my dentist listed me as having precancerous legions on my gums. Those are now GONE. That’s not being a damn purist ya’ll. THAT’S WHY I’m a DAMN PUREST.

But ya'll go ahead. I mean you did try it once in college and nothing happened. O yea, and there was last week too.

Has no one listened to what the long time dippers on this forum say almost to the person?

I changed to snus because I knew I needed to get off of dip long long before I knew there even was such a thing as snus.

[gambino]

i started, like a dumbass btw, using skoal fine cut when i was about 12.
i thought it was cool cause i saw older kids doing it.
32 now somehow i made it with minimal damage.
was on and off, i'd quite for yrs at a time but i always fell back.
i like snus, but it's obvious it shares the same sorta sides that i despise that skoal did.
gum recession and stained teeth, i see it already and i'm only a month snuser.
but i can see my gum pulling back a bit...if it stops then cool if not i'll have to quit snus like i did dip.

but i don't blame chemicals or american greed!!@! for this, plainly tobacco is abrasive when placed against the gum tissue.
not chemical imo, just the tobacco

[gambino]

i started, like a dumbass btw, using skoal fine cut when i was about 12.
i thought it was cool cause i saw older kids doing it.
32 now somehow i made it with minimal damage.
was on and off, i'd quite for yrs at a time but i always fell back.
i like snus, but it's obvious it shares the same sorta sides that i despise that skoal did.
gum recession and stained teeth, i see it already and i'm only a month snuser.
but i can see my gum pulling back a bit...if it stops then cool if not i'll have to quit snus like i did dip.

but i don't blame chemicals or american greed!!@! for this, plainly tobacco is abrasive when placed against the gum tissue.
not chemical imo, just the tobacco

and i'm sorry for hijacking this thread a bit, but the gum recession i'm curious about...even the swedish match page says that some have experienced gum recession with snus, but not tooth loss? how can you have one with out the other? seems like if your gum recedes the tooth eventually loses it's meat and falls out.

[Snusdog]

i started, like a dumbass btw, using skoal fine cut when i was about 12.
i thought it was cool cause i saw older kids doing it.
32 now somehow i made it with minimal damage.
was on and off, i'd quite for yrs at a time but i always fell back.
i like snus, but it's obvious it shares the same sorta sides that i despise that skoal did.
gum recession and stained teeth, i see it already and i'm only a month snuser.
but i can see my gum pulling back a bit...if it stops then cool if not i'll have to quit snus like i did dip.

but i don't blame chemicals or american greed!!@! for this, plainly tobacco is abrasive when placed against the gum tissue.
not chemical imo, just the tobacco

gambino thank you mate. I stand corrected. My sincerest apologies ops:

Re: gum recession- I have never had a big issue with receding gums. Then again I never dipped or snused wintergreen or mint products. When I have tried them there has always been a great deal more burn and discomfort than with non-mint, non-wintergreen flavors. I wonder if that is a factor?

I still hold that there is a significant chemical difference in dip and snus. However, I do not believe that this difference must therefore be at the root of every problem one encounters using either dip or snus.

Pease

dog 8)

.

[Liandri]

Gambino your still have meat in the back and your tooth is still nicely secured to your skull/jaw.