American Vs Swedish tobacco

[gambino]

Gambino your still have meat in the back and your tooth is still nicely secured to your skull/jaw.

gum peels back, making the tooth vunerable to decay and root rot.
natural progression of gum recession, and snus does cause this according to swedish match

[gambino]

[
gambino thank you mate. I stand corrected. My sincerest apologies ops:

Re: gum recession- I have never had a big issue with receding gums. Then again I never dipped or snused wintergreen or mint products. When I have tried them there has always been a great deal more burn and discomfort than with non-mint, non-wintergreen flavors. I wonder if that is a factor?

I still hold that there is a significant chemical difference in dip and snus. However, I do not believe that this difference must therefore be at the root of every problem one encounters using either dip or snus.

Pease

dog 8)

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first time i snused grov it burned...burned for days afterward, def blistered something up that way.
the very same burn you experienced with dip.
the grov burn went away, just like the dip burn would go away if you made it a habit.
burn-the cough you get the first time you smoke, a reaction to a foreign substance in your body.
dip bashing here, to me, sometimes comes across as euro snobbery mixed with a addicts desire to justify how his/her fix is superior...i really disbelief that US tobacco's mission statement is any different than swedish match's is.
not to posion and kill it's customers

[Roo]

In my limited experience, dip rips me up after one go at it. Gum-wise, that is. Snus does not, although some are harsher than others. Grov is one of them, but it's good stuff. With most snus my gums feel fine, but having said that, I won't pretend like sometimes there isn't any temporary discomfort. After a few minutes enough saliva penetrates the snus (that's right) and it gets comfortable.

[gambino]

In my limited experience, dip rips me up after one go at it. Gum-wise, that is. Snus does not, although some are harsher than others. Grov is one of them, but it's good stuff. With most snus my gums feel fine, but having said that, I won't pretend like sometimes there isn't any temporary discomfort. After a few minutes enough saliva penetrates the snus (that's right) and it gets comfortable.

heck yea grov is great stuff.
but the stuff seriously burnt my gums the first can.
made my eyes water, any reasonable man would've spit it out.

and i looking back i feel like a tard cheerleader for dip.
dip is a replusive disgusting habit i'm just voicing my opinion i take
no personal stock in it.

[burningcow422]

I actually prefer American dip over snus but my gums are so receded it's not even funny so I use snus now with an occasional cigarette. My gums just can't handle any more big ass pinches and I'm fine with snus. I see where you are going though.

[f. bandersnatch]

^must be a difference in chemical and physical makeup then. First time I ever dipped was skoal wintergreen. Aside from puking my guts out later that night , my bottom lip felt about 3 sizes to small for the next two days and I developed definite lacerations on the inside of my lip.

I know from experience that these types of things eventually disappear due to prolonged and regular use (or you just get used to them), but my first time snusing resulted in a slightly crinkled upper lip, which I still get after each use (esp. with loose). Seems like a pretty big indicator to me.

I don't think that US smokeless has any intention of poisoning or killing its customers. They are actually pretty accessible (on to their website they have an ingredient list for each of their products). I just think that the physical difference between snus and dip leads to a different topical reaction in the mouth. I think that this physical difference stems form one single culprit, and that is fermentation.

Someone more knowledgeable than me could probably expand on the chemical differences though. I did see saccharine listed as an ingredient in skoal wintergreen, and we can all remember the various follies of this particular additive (sweet and low).

[LaZeR]

meh, i don't believe most of what i read on here about dip and the horrors/chemicals/evil american corporate conspiracy.
copenhagen snuff was trademarked in 1822...ground tobacco and flavorings.
imo people want to hate on dip more so it makes them feel better about using a very similiar product.

Well I hope you folks realize my "fiberglass" references are purely for the LoLs. It gets Liandri all hot and bothered.

But anyhoo being a former dipper of Copenhagen snuff for 30 years, I can tell you this. Without even swallowing the juices, I had steady heartburn nightly. Nothing else has changed in my diet. My gums constantly felt like a washboard and looked brown even after vigorous brushing and mouthwash. I've had various occasions where "canker" type sores - whiteheads, whatever... broke out around my lower gumline and inner cheek. The one time I did swallow some Cope, I damn near shit my pants and luckily was close to the can.

With that said, I know I'm still what many would consider a newB at snus, however I maintain a pretty steady diet of the strongest snus in Starks and ES's. I lös nightly, sometimes more-so. NEVER as of yet (knock on wood) have I experienced ANY of the former mentioned symptons/reactions I experienced whilst dipping cope. And I don't spit snus, in fact I've accidentally ate some whole portions and swallowed some bits of lös on occasion.

Maybe it is all psychological but I'm rather pleased with Swedish snus in comparison to American dip.

[Snusdog]

I chain dipped. I now chain snus.

In the 3 years I have snused I have never once had the ridges burned into my lip, teeth hurt, white spots that I regularly got from dip. Not once.

Yes I get salt abrasion and rubbing against the lip from pressure. But this is not the same thing as I experienced with dip- at all!

No I do not think that American companies are trying to poison people.

However, I do think they are trying to speed production while lowering the cost of production. I do think that they are trying to chemically prolong shelf life, I do think they are trying to enhance the addictive delivery system (all the while using lower grade leaf- which has less naturally occurring nicotine).

And no this is not mere speculation or conspiracy theory. The alteration of tobacco products resulting in adverse effects on the consumer’s health is well documented and has resulted in very large sums of money in tobacco settlement cases. FACT.

Do I believe American tobacco is more contentious about what goes into their product? Yes but only some what. In fact, I think it is more accurate to say that they are more careful and more wily. One thing is certain, American tobacco has made it quite clear that they CARE NOTHING about producing a safe alternative to cigarettes (just look at how they market Camel- the in between smokes solution.).

So here is a question, are Swedish production methods a big trade secret? Do the Swedes alone know how to pasteurize tobacco? WHY THEN DO THE AMERCAN COMPANIES NOT CHOOSE THE SAFER METHOD OF PRODUCTION IF THEY KNOW HOW TO DO IT?

Ingredients list tell only part of the story. Genetically altering plants (not necessarily bad), growing methods (including fertilization), curing, and processing will all affect the final product without ever showing up on an ingredients list.

If there is no chemical difference then why is SNUS A FOOD PRODUCT and DIP IS NOT

Your optimism does not take into account these documented concerns much less the existential experiences of the vast majority of dippers (be it lip lacerations, swallowing the juice, the difference in the refrigeration requirements between the two purportedly identical products).

I’ll ask it again….. Why is one chemically identical product food while the other is not?

No this is not European snobbery…...…Rather, it is just a desire for a coherent narrative that is able to make intelligible the vast array of concerns (verses disjointed, antidotal, and piecemeal explanations that never provide a satisfactory picture)


dog 8)

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Edit- took out the smart ass ending

[Snusdog]

Before I forget nice post Laz!!! Spot on!

Look, I do not pretend to be an expert or have any insider information. I look at the same ingredients lists that everyone else does. I read the same articles that everyone else does.

But it’s like I’m standing at the side of the road looking across a bridge. I keep seeing cars slide off the bridge into the water below. I post that from now on I’m taking the bridge that the Swedes have built because it’s safer.

People get all bothered. Someone sends me analysis of the concrete used on both bridges showing it is the same. Another tells me how they drove across the bridge with their granny and nothing happened. Someone else chimes in that they once got a flat tire on the bridge and they have also gotten a flat tire on the Swedish bridge.

But one thing that no one has done so far is to explain what all those damn cars are doing in the ravine right below the bridge called dip.

In other words no one has explained the obvious situation that is right in front of everyone’s eyes:

Why isn’t dip food?

Why isn’t it pasteurized?

Given American Tobacco’s history, do these concerns merit caution and a healthy suspicion concerning American tobacco products? In other words, if it ain’t quacking like a duck and if it can’t swim like a duck is it fair for us to question the assertion that it’s a duck, just like all the ducks in Sweden?

That's all I've been trying to say.

Peace


:?:

:!:

8) dog

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[f. bandersnatch]

^"ravine called dip." Oh, that's good.

I have nothing productive to add, just props.

Oh, wait... there is one thing..er..dip has fiberglass innit..?

But seriously, US smokeless fertilizes all of its baccer plants with cobra turds, which of course makes them poisonous.

[Owens187]

So far, by my count:


Dog - 4

Opposition - 0

:lol:


GREAT posts, Dog!

[Snusdog]

Laz, I copied your post to the Guide. I thought it was well worth saving. Thanks bro

By the way the Dipper’s Guide to Snus has moved.

It is now in the Newbie Section.

You can find it here:

http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=4014

.

[LaZeR]

Laz, I copied your post to the Guide. I thought it was well worth saving. Thanks bro

By the way the Dipper’s Guide to Snus has moved.

It is now in the Newbie Section.

You can find it here:

http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=4014

.

Thank you. Happy to contribute something of value for a change. :lol:

[Premium Parrots]

Laz, I copied your post to the Guide. I thought it was well worth saving. Thanks bro

By the way the Dipper’s Guide to Snus has moved.

It is now in the Newbie Section.

You can find it here:

http://www.snuson.com/viewtopic.php?t=4014

.

Thank you. Happy to contribute something of value for a change. :lol:

:shock:

[Liandri]

Snus is regulated as a food product, meaning the additives used to blend with the tobacco must be of same standard as those used in food. But tobacco is NOT a food product. People do NOT eat snus or any tobacco product for that matter. Besides Squeeze Bacon is a food product in Sweden, so even their standards are piss poor and low.