Northerner.com will sell in USA but will follow the Pact Act

[RobsanX]

Yes, why General and not Gustavus?

And if you don't carry Oomph! my wife is going to be pissed!

[lxskllr]

And if you don't carry Oomph! my wife is going to be pissed!

That's a good snus to stockpile if you like it. That stuff's so dry and processed, I think it'll last till the second coming in perfect shape.

[lxskllr]

Re: Northerner.com will sell in USA but will follow the Pact

The numbers of brands we will be able to offer will decrese due to the new FDA requirements...

<SNIP>

...and some from Gotlandssnus and TillCe.

Can you provide any more clarity on that part? Which snus from Gotlandssnus & TillCe? Thanks.

That's all a bit worrisome. Those are 3 of my top favorite snus makers. In fact, I'd prefer to get rid of all others if I could get LD, Gotland, and Gellivare/Landströms.

[Mohave]

Re: Northerner.com will sell in USA but will follow the Pact

Do you think the US custom will just let snus orders from Sweden passing through - without proper tax and age verified?

Not very fracking long, unless it is a very low profile individual sending it, handling very small quantities they get on a retail, not wholesale from the maker, basis. The act mandates creation of a list of sellers who do not comply, which is to be distributed to "common carriers" (UPS etc). Common carriers who deliver from those on the list can be jailed, among other nasty things. They aren't going to do that. Additionally, FDA now has authority to take action against manufacturers who sell through unapproved channels, which can include shutting them out of the US market entirely for doing business with "smugglers." Manufacturers with significant business interests at risk aren't going to do that. US Customs doesn't have to do much of anything to enforce it. Private businesses, including delivery services and manufacturers, are now in the distasteful position of having to enforce it to stay in business. And they'll do a much more efficient effective job, unwillingly, than any unionised civil servants ever would.

Since I presume "it will never pass so everybody just shut up" is now officially toast, we will instead shortly be reading a little flurry of amateur jailhouse lawyer theories on the topic of how it doesn't really mean what anything much, and that it won't do what it's authors and congressional legal counsel and the professionally staffed and highly organised constituencies who pushed it through have repeatedly said it will. And anyone believing any of it as a result should not be leaving home without adult supervision. Free forum discussion boards like this are wonderful things that are terrifically useful in so many ways, but it should be intuitively obvious that they are not sound sources to rely on for that. Folks on web discussion sites can and will now set about cooking up fantasies all they want about how they'll mail it through anyway, under whatever theories they may want to invent, but when someone actually does that they will shortly find out that they won't be in the tobacco business anywhere, including their home country, for very long.

[Mohave]

Among the brands I infer to be most at risk, at least the "purified portion" (Oomph) stuff stores very well. At least I think and hope it does. I've laid up a ton of it and can see what I'll probably be topping off on my ginorhugemongous armageddon snus-cave stash.

But I have a Gotlands yellow with my coffee right now, and would be disappointed to give that up.

Cheers.

[Snusdog]

Frank,

While I support and agree with Northerner’s decision to be fully compliant with PACT, I hope that you will make sure that you know exactly what compliance means.

Roderick’s decision to continue to ship snuff to the USA is not based upon defiance or a refusal to comply with USA law. Rather, it is based on conversations with the USA Consulate, officials at the Postal System, and other law makers. It is based on an understanding of the law and the way that law has to work within already existing treaties. Internationally speaking, PACT has to comply with the World Trade Agreement that exists between the EU and the USA. I would really encourage you to familiarize yourself with this agreement and its implications to the present discussion if you have not done so already. It will also be helpful if you share your findings with us so that we can understand more fully the basis of your decisions. As of now your decisions seem to be based on more mass hysteria and speculation than an informed understanding of the laws involved. I am not saying this is the case but only that you have not COMMUNICATED a grasp of the situation that would enable me to believe otherwise.

Second, why the limitation of brands? The FDA has NOT made any ruling that would discriminate between a SM product and say a Gellivare product. Again, I am not following you or your decision making process.

In the end, limiting yourself to a USA based warehouse, IF IT IS NOT ABSOLUTLY NECESARRY, will indeed severely reduce your business.

If other companies can offer 10 brands legally and in full compliance with PACT and international trade agreements…while you only offer 5 for what seems to be self imposed reasons………..you will lose your business and lose it quickly.

We are NOT asking any company to help us avoid paying taxes, to break the law, or to partake in smuggling. We are simply asking companies to use the FULL EXTENT of existing international and USA laws (including PACT), to provide us with the range of snus we are used to.

dog

.

[Veganpunk]

An example of SnusDog's point: No LD is gonna hurt. I have no reason to order from Northerner if I can't get LD, I might as well use Getsnus or Clubsnus.

[Mohave]

An example of SnusDog's point: No LD is gonna hurt. I have no reason to order from Northerner if I can't get LD, I might as well use Getsnus or Clubsnus.

Have they said they will be able to continue with the brands Northerner mentioned? If so, I'd like to read about what they are planning to do.

I didn't understand the reason for the brand selectivity either, at least at this point, unless it simply is a business decision having to do with increased costs and looking at their turnover of product. But I expect it won't be the last time I'm befuddled by things that happen as this gets implemented.

[Veganpunk]

Well if I can't have LD, I might as well just use General White, which I'm sure anyone who carries snus will carry that.

[truthwolf1]

I guess the question is what's the tax in PA?

But you are in Mass, right? In MA your order will have to be taxed at 90% of "wholesale value" + federal tax + any additional local tax that applies.

That 90% I believe is the State Tax but what is the federal tax going to be? Shipping with the added age verification will be a little bit more but not that much I would think.

[tom502]

Another good thing about snus, was it was cheaper than dip, now it might not be.

[lxskllr]

That 90% I believe is the State Tax but what is the federal tax going to be? Shipping with the added age verification will be a little bit more but not that much I would think.

Federal tax isn't terrible. It's $1.51 per pound...

http://www.ttb.gov/tax_audit/atftaxes.shtml

[Mohave]

Yeah, the federal tax on smokeless really isn't a problem, at least not for now. Whether you really get hosed or just nicked depends on the individual state's tax.

I don't have the link in front of me at the moment, but google the terms "smokeless tobacco state taxes" and one of the first several search results will be a pdf chart from Fascist Creeps for the Promotion of Idiocy, otherwise more commonly known as the Coalition for Tobacco Free Kids, listing the state by state rates.

Some are reasonable. Some are not.

EDIT: Okay, as much as I hate to drive any traffic to their website, here it is:
http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/resea...s/pdf/0169.pdf

[f. bandersnatch]

I think that Roderick has it right on this one, if there is one truth about bureaucracy, it is that it doesn't work. If Frank and the Northerner wish to play it safe and acquiesce to the PACT in such a way that is not necessary it could hurt their business.

[Psilocybin]

Does this effect shipping to Canada?