Northerner.com will sell in USA but will follow the Pact Act

[GENERAL BILLY]

On second glance:

1)I guess it won't be such a bad thing in Ohio, since the tax on smokeless is only 17% of the wholesale price, as stated here: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1858.html

2)Looking at the same chart......man, it must really, really SUCK to live in Massachusetts. :shock:

That is why so many of us have moved to New Hampshire . live free or die!

[WickedKitchen]

Dude, they tax the ever living crap out of us here with a hell of a lot more than tobacco.

[olderthandirt]

MrSnuff and NicotineRush are now staying in business, but relocating to the UK.

April fools joke or being sarcastic? I order from both places

Neither Fury, consider please:
http://snuffhouse.org/?CommentID=106620

As for Northerner... at 1st blush almost has the feel of rolling over. meh. The prices at Northerner have gone up already, LD products were really the only thing that I order from there anyway so it's a wash for for me for now.

My last order from getsnus would have been 15 dollars more from Northerner plus higher postage plus 14 days instead of 4.

As long as getsnus is able to continue doing business I'll continue doing my trade with them.

Busy filling freezer,

The taxman has been met at the gate and he has been denied.

[TWISTED VICTOR]

As for Northerner... at 1st blush almost has the feel of rolling over. meh. The prices at Northerner have gone up already, LD products were really the only thing that I order from there anyway so it's a wash for for me for now.

My last order from getsnus would have been 15 dollars more from Northerner plus higher postage plus 14 days instead of 4.

As long as getsnus is able to continue doing business I'll continue doing my trade with them.

Busy filling freezer,

The taxman has been met at the gate and he has been denied.

Yep. Don't really understand what the FDA has to do with Oden, but it appears getsnus will still be selling it. Much cheaper shipping to boot. Government takes enough, compliance is one thing but to offer more makes no sense.

[Kahuna]

Does anyone know if F&L is owned by JTI?

[lxskllr]

Does anyone know if F&L is owned by JTI?

F&L's snus division is owned by BAT last time I heard.

[Kahuna]

Thanks,I posted the question then found BAT's insignia on a empty can.I figure I'll stockpile a bunch of the post-Pact unavailables and deal with the rest when money gets less tight.

[GoVegan]

We all knew this was coming and that our supply of snus was definitely going to be affected. On that note, at least Northerner had the foresight to invest in a US based warehouse so they could still sell snus here. I have a feeling that their investment was not easy or cheap and I hope it pays off nicely for them. Thanks Northerner for being proactive about this mess!

Also, Obama is not doing nearly as good a job as I hoped for but it wouldn't have mattered if he signed of on this bi partisan bill or not. If he failed to sign it, it would have become law. If he vetoed it, it would have been easily overridden by the house. So he might as well look good, do a few favors and sign the thing. It's a moot point.

[Snusdog]

Warning

this is a Rant

an important one

but a rant nonetheless

First of all let’s get one thing straight. Let’s make sure that we are not confusing compliance with the Pact Act with a collaboration with Swedish Match.

Understand brethren that Frank has just, for all extents and purposes, announced to you that you will not be able to order snus from his Swedish based store if you live in the USA. However, there is nothing in the Pact Act that even remotely resembles that restriction. At worst it says that shipping will have to be through another carrier besides USPS and even that is highly in doubt for non USA companies.

Maybe (you say) it has to do with the taxes and the paper work. Good point. Except for one small detail-- HE WILL STILL HAVE ALL THIS PAPERWORK AND TAX COLLECTION AT HIS USA STORE.

As far as international companies collecting USA taxes (come on guys…..just stop and think it through for a second). As you do, let me remind you that you are already required by an already existing USA law to pay taxes on the tobacco products you receive from over seas (you do realize that). Also you do realize that there is already a system in place for collecting those taxes from overseas sales. YOU THE BUYER ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO DECLARE AND PAY THOSE TAXES IN FULL. Furthermore, you do realize that the PACT ACT makes NO revision to this already existing system for international orders. Rather it simply requires USA companies to begin collecting and reporting those taxes for each state in which they do business.

Next Frank has told you that they will limit the selection that you will be able to acquire due to a nonexistent FDA regulation. Amazingly Swedish Match is not one of the companies restricted. However, its largest competitors are strangely noncompliant.

This is Bullshit

I do not know much but what I do know is that Frank just went on fishing expedition here on the forum to see how this would go over.

I also know that none of the changes he has floated seem to have anything to do with the reasons he has given us for those changes.

(sniff)…..(sniff)

Smells like somebody’s playing with Swedish matches

And if we were at the track......... and I were a betting man....... I’m placing my money on the horse named Collusion.

This seems little more than collusion with SM to gain a strong hold on the American market and edge out its most viable competitors. V2 is buyable. BAT is not.

Hey Frank the American people are getting jacked by our own government. There is not much we can do about that. However there is plenty we can do about getting jacked by a distributor.


Rant over

And Frank, I still love you. I’ll still buy snus from you. But that was Bullshit

dog :|

[f. bandersnatch]

^very interesting rant snusdog, enjoyed it thoroughly. I still maintain that if our selection from the northerner is cut down this severely, we will just buy from other distributors. I hope that you are right, and that Frank is testing the waters on this one. If he is, I will say it loudly: THE ONLY REASON I BUY FROM THE NORTHERNER IS SELECTION.

I, for one, will buy from getsnus if all I can get is SM, as they are a shitload cheaper, and the offer free cans of either GWintergreen (hold on...*dry heaves*) or phantom brown (oh shit, I lost it...*BARFS*) with every order.

[daruckis]

dog wins. somethings fishy about this.

[Monkey]

Now my questions are what will the other website retailers owned by Northerner (snus.com) be offering? Is that the new "American arm" of Northerner to be placed as the alternative to the actual Northerner web shop? All of the selection that Northerner offers while "The Northerner" gets a stake Swedish Match and v2 in the US under that name while creating competition with itself and sharing a warehouse?

I don't see that as a bad thing at all. Just asking as I am a fan of Northerner for the selection too and if I have to order that selection from a different storefront I will.

Mike

[LHB]

@ Snusdog

Right on, right on, right on! In my opinion, you hit all the nails on the head.

The only thing the PACT Act really changes is the enforcement mechanisms for already existing laws. By appearing to impose draconion penalties on retailers and manufacturers (instead of us consumers, who are currently legally required to declare our tobacco tax liability, and remit it to the appropriate government agencies) the authors of this legislation hope to enhance compliance with existing laws by putting the the Federal Government Jackboot to the throat of businesses with more to gain or lose from non-compliance.

If I was in the business, I'd relocate overseas. And I wouldn't view it as an opportunity to stamp out the competition. One of the major reasons why there IS a snus market in the first place is because of variety. Eliminate that, and make it as expensive as American Dip, and good luck staying in business.

[Northerner.com]

The reason why we have to limit the brand selection is that by the 22nd of June, FDA requirements says that ALL tobacco brands sold in the US should be registered at the FDA - the manufacturer should send an ingredient list and register all their brands. The only manufacturer that have done so are; Swedish Match, Skruf/Imperial, Gotlandssnus, V2 and TillCe. I have contacted both JTI and BAT several times and they told me that they have no intention of register their brands in the US because of possible conflicts with their US organizations. Gellivare never even replied to my request. Gajane might do it but have not given any more information when it will be done.

I will contact a lawyer in Washington and the American Trade Department at the US Embassy in Stockholm on Tuesday in next week and ask them to contact the FDA for a request if we as a Swedish company with a US subsidy have to follow the Pact Act.

We just want to look into the future where we don't break the law, I personal wouldn't be able to sleep otherwise.

Happy Easter folks!

Frank

[Owens187]

@Snusdog

I was actually thinking the same damn thing, but then second guessed myself, thinking I was just over-reacting, reading too far into it....


Now that I see it layed out like that, I am also calling Bullshit.



Note to Northerner:

I too will just buy elsewhere if this in fact holds true. (And probably a lot of other people will too....) Like said above, the only reason I have ever used Northerner was for selection. I can get Swedish Match product elsewhere faster, and much cheaper.