Northerner.com will sell in USA but will follow the Pact Act

[f. bandersnatch]

Thanks Frank. I think we all really appreciate your willingness to communicate with us, despite our newly found tendency for conspiracy theory.

I would like to ask though, the FDA regulations are for tobacco sold in the United States, so why not just continue to ship from Sweden? I think that Roderick has it right on this one; you, as an international dealer, do not hold any personal liability for what the fine people of the United States decide to do with their credit cards online. I guess I just don't see how moving your business to the US because of PACT makes any sense at all.

[Snusdog]

Thanks Frank. I think we all really appreciate your willingness to communicate with us, despite our newly found tendency for conspiracy theory.

Yea that's my bad ops: ................ sorry bout that guys..........I'm usually not one to throw the conspiracy card...........It must be some sort of government mind control ray or something :wink:

I guess I just don't see how moving your business to the US because of PACT makes any sense at all.

I can see it in the long run...........possibly.

However, for now I definitely think having an overseas option is a BIG BIG advantage.

dog 8)


.

[daruckis]

Ugh, I hate RJR. JTI makes some of the best snus. Thanks Frank for clearing it up.

What the hell's up with JTI? They must be happy with their ~4% share in Sweden. America's a huge potential market, and Swedish Match's advantage is much smaller here than it is in Sweden. A small company could kick some ass if they gave it a shot.

yeah seriously. over here we sure as hell dont have generations of people whove used general or ettan all their lives, like their parents used, like their grandparents used. if anything we have tons of curious internet addicts who will try everything under the sun. im still pissed about this, as i recently landed on JTI as being my favorite company.

[NorSnuser]

First the FDA is not who you need to talk to about the PACT ACT. The FDA regulations are completely separate from that of PACT. My guess is that you will need to talk to USA Customs. Regardless, the lawyers will know

I suspected this but thought I'd wait until Frank stipulated it himself. The problem with multiple bureaucracies is that they will eventually start to get enmeshed with each other. The FDA has been slow on getting the rules in effect, but now that PACT has passed it gives them more enforcement power.

Companies have to follow Section 904(a)(1) of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act. I quote from the Act available on the FDA site (emphasis mine):

Section 904(a)(1) of the act requires each tobacco product manufacturer or importer, or agent thereof, to submit a listing of all ingredients, including tobacco, substances, compounds, and additives that are added by the manufacturer to the tobacco, paper, filter, or other part of each tobacco product by brand and by quantity in each brand and subbrand. For tobacco products on the market as of June 22, 2009, information required under section 904(a)(1) must be submitted by December 22, 2009 (6 months after the date of enactment of the Tobacco Control Act) and include the ingredients added as of the date of submission. For tobacco products not on the market as of June 22, 2009, section 904(c)(1) requires that the list of ingredients be submitted at least 90 days prior to delivery for introduction into interstate commerce. Section 904(c) of the act also requires submission of information whenever additives, or the quantities of additives, are changed.

The failure to provide any information required by sections 904 is a prohibited act under section 301(q)(1)(B) of the act (21 U.S.C. 331(q)(1)(B)). In addition, under section 903(a)(10)(A) of the act, a tobacco product is deemed misbranded if there was any failure or refusal to comply with any requirement prescribed under section 904. Violations relating to section 904 are subject to regulatory and enforcement action by FDA, including, but not limited to, seizure and injunction.

It specifically states importer. Now (as far as foreign companies) this may go against international laws as the FDA has no jurisdiction, but this certainly isn't the first time our politicians have passed illegal or unconstitutional legislation. But if the companies don't comply, we just don't get the tobacco products. Or they get seized when they enter the United States. I hope this gets hammered out in the courts and becomes more rational. But I'm not holding my breath.

Read Section 905 (subsection h.) of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act:

REGISTRATION BY FOREIGN ESTABLISHMENTS.----Any establishment within any foreign country engaged in the manufacture, preparation, compounding, or processing of a tobacco product or tobacco products, shall register under this section under regulations promulgated by the Secretary. Such regulations shall require such establishment to provide the information required by subsection (i) and shall include provisions for registration of any such establishment upon condition that adequate and effective means are available, by arrangement with the government of such foreign country or otherwise, to enable the Secretary to determine from time to time whether tobacco products manufactured, prepared, compounded, or processed in such establishment, if imported or offered for import into the United States, shall be refused admission on any of the grounds set forth in section 801(a).

It would be a good idea for everyone to read the full text of H.R. 1256. I haven't read the entire document in a while but if I remember right there was a section that gave the FDA authority to put something like PACT into force anyway if it deemed in the public health's best interest. Something about being able to require direct face-to-face exchanges to prevent underage individuals from acquiring tobacco products. I think it is under the REMOTE SALES section.

[Snusdog]

Nor I think importer means those who import for resale here in the USA. For example a wine store may import French wine to sell in their shop. Under like terms they would have to list the ingredients.

Notice then there is no mention of companies that sell tobacco products only those that are involved in the "manufacture, preparation, compounding, or processing of a tobacco products" are mentioned. The reason is that this involves importation to USA for resale.

None of this applies to shops like Northerner and Toque who are not importing for resale in the USA (excepting Northerners USA based shop- which is why I think keeping the shipping option from Sweden opened will be a great advantage for both us and Frank)

Just to make things a bit more clear: remember an importer is someone who is in the USA buying foreign goods. Toque and Notherner are Exporters

[Toque Snuff]

We have no intention of telling the FDA sweet fanny Adams. I am starting to get rather cross about this whole thing.

I am a citizen of the United Kingdom, I am not at the beck and call of pompas American senators who are too stupid to realise their authority doesn’t cover the whole world.

Furthermore I would welcome a visit from the FDA. I would have them arrested as soon as they entered my premises, but I doubt they’d know which state Berwick upon Tweed is in.

[lxskllr]

Furthermore I would welcome a visit from the FDA. I would have them arrested as soon as they entered my premises, but I doubt they’d know which state Berwick upon Tweed is in.

That's Kentucky, right?

:^P

[Toque Snuff]

I'm not voting for you Lxskllr. LOL!

[Snusdog]

Furthermore I would welcome a visit from the FDA. I would have them arrested as soon as they entered my premises, but I doubt they’d know which state Berwick upon Tweed is in.

That's Kentucky, right?

:^P

I'm pretty sure that's right lx. Right on the border with Tenn

:lol:

.

[Veganpunk]

Furthermore I would welcome a visit from the FDA. I would have them arrested as soon as they entered my premises, but I doubt they’d know which state Berwick upon Tweed is in.

That's Kentucky, right?

:^P

I'm pretty sure that's right lx. Right on the border with Tenn

:lol:

.

I've been there. They love the smell of cheese and bacon! :wink:

[Snusdog]

My Aunt is from there

[LHB]

We have no intention of telling the FDA sweet fanny Adams. I am starting to get rather cross about this whole thing.

I am a citizen of the United Kingdom, I am not at the beck and call of pompas American senators who are too stupid to realise their authority doesn’t cover the whole world.

Furthermore I would welcome a visit from the FDA. I would have them arrested as soon as they entered my premises, but I doubt they’d know which state Berwick upon Tweed is in.

Good for you Roderick! Their arrogance is really becoming breathtaking.

As I recall, over 80% of current U.S. Senators were unable to answer the question: "When was the War of 1812 fought." Over 95% of U.S. Custom's Officials, in an informal survey, when asked what time it was, responded with "Do you mean right now?"

[airwoodstock]

Furthermore I would welcome a visit from the FDA. I would have them arrested as soon as they entered my premises, but I doubt they’d know which state Berwick upon Tweed is in.

That's Kentucky, right?

:^P

I'm pretty sure that's right lx. Right on the border with Tenn

:lol:

.

I've been there. They love the smell of cheese and bacon! :wink:

Nah........it's in the Ozark Mountain Range! Near Branson, MO! And Vegan, they like Bacon and cheese but the smell is of BenGay and Polydent!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

All kidding aside, Thanks Frank and Roderick for the clarification on all this and Happy Easter to you both and your families!

[Kvlt]

Wait, this actually passed? Goddamn it.

If the price of snus at getsnus goes up, I will find other methods. Might have to go back to smoking and order cigs out of country.

Also due to the way Toque is standing upto this, I will try snuff again. Always got a cold using their absinthe flavor though.

[lxskllr]

Wait, this actually passed? Goddamn it.

If the price of snus at getsnus goes up, I will find other methods. Might have to go back to smoking and order cigs out of country.

The price will go up, but it won't be so bad for you since you're in Ohio.