Northerner.com will sell in USA but will follow the Pact Act

[stubby2]

We have no intention of telling the FDA sweet fanny Adams. I am starting to get rather cross about this whole thing.

I am a citizen of the United Kingdom, I am not at the beck and call of pompas American senators who are too stupid to realise their authority doesn’t cover the whole world.

Furthermore I would welcome a visit from the FDA. I would have them arrested as soon as they entered my premises, but I doubt they’d know which state Berwick upon Tweed is in.

Okay, probably a bit unfair to drag up an older post of yours, but I can't see where you have changed your position since.

I'm strictly an amateur when it comes to legal issues so keep that in mind. But resent discussion does beg a few questions.

Togue seems to be completely depending on international law and trade agreements as your argument for how you're going to continue selling to the USA market. Well, no one can say at this point exactly how this is going to play out, but there is a very good chance you'll get shut out of the USA market.

So why not just play both sides of the fence. Register your products with the FDA as required by the family protection act. You have till June 22 to do that. Dot the i's and cross the t's as far as the PACT act and the new FDA authority with tobacco. If you want to sell your products in the USA there is a very good chance you're going to have to play by USA rules.

I wonder if any nasal snuff manufactures have registered there products. SM, Skruf, and a number of other snus makers are playing by the rules and I'm very happy about that. I may not like the rules but I would like it a whole lot less if I couldn't get my snus.

I just think Toque is taking a big chance and I fear you may well get shut out of the market.

[Snusdog]

We have no intention of telling the FDA sweet fanny Adams. I am starting to get rather cross about this whole thing.

I am a citizen of the United Kingdom, I am not at the beck and call of pompas American senators who are too stupid to realise their authority doesn’t cover the whole world.

Furthermore I would welcome a visit from the FDA. I would have them arrested as soon as they entered my premises, but I doubt they’d know which state Berwick upon Tweed is in.

Okay, probably a bit unfair to drag up an older post of yours, but I can't see where you have changed your position since.

I'm strictly an amateur when it comes to legal issues so keep that in mind. But resent discussion does beg a few questions.

Togue seems to be completely depending on international law and trade agreements as your argument for how you're going to continue selling to the USA market. Well, no one can say at this point exactly how this is going to play out, but there is a very good chance you'll get shut out of the USA market.

So why not just play both sides of the fence. Register your products with the FDA as required by the family protection act. You have till June 22 to do that. Dot the i's and cross the t's as far as the PACT act and the new FDA authority with tobacco. If you want to sell your products in the USA there is a very good chance you're going to have to play by USA rules.

I wonder if any nasal snuff manufactures have registered there products. SM, Skruf, and a number of other snus makers are playing by the rules and I'm very happy about that. I may not like the rules but I would like it a whole lot less if I couldn't get my snus.

I just think Toque is taking a big chance and I fear you may well get shut out of the market.

I think you can boil JT and my disagreement down to prepositions.

I maintain that the language of the PACT distinguished between selling snus/snuff to the USA and selling it in the USA (by distinguish I mean that the PACT does not address the former but limits itself to the latter)

JT, Vegan, and sgreger hold that the intention of PACT makes no practical distinction between snuff/snus sold in or to the USA by requiring uniform regulations regardless of the origin of the sale.

Toque (if I have understood Roderick correctly) holds to something closer to my view and thus is banking on sales to USA consumers while forgoing sales in the USA due to regulations/taxes.

JT, Vegan, sgreger, and Roderick I hope I have fairly represented ya'lls positions.

Like I said in my post last night, I believe this is where the two differing views stand. I also believe we are just going to have to wait to see what the definitive answer will be.

That said JT's discussion last night was very helpful to me in that it allowed me to somewhat clarify the issue and to recognize the two general schools of thought on the issue. Thanks again JT

dog 8)

.

[stubby2]

Snusdog: I understand both sides of the discussion, and that's what I saying by playing both sides of the fence. If your position holds up its all good. We all go on importing snus and snuff from overseas and happiness prevails.

But, if things go bad and JT is right Toque is screwed as far as the US market. We can still likely get our SM, Skruf, and V2 snus because they're playing to win. They're doing everything they can to play by the rules and trying to cover all there bases no matter how this plays out. Not so with Toque. So why doesn't Toque cover all the bases to ensure they have the US market covered? That's all I'm trying to say.

[Snusdog]

Snusdog: I understand both sides of the discussion, and that's what I saying by playing both sides of the fence. If your position holds up its all good. We all go on importing snus and snuff from overseas and happiness prevails.

But, if things go bad and JT is right Toque is screwed as far as the US market. We can still likely get our SM, Skruf, and V2 snus because they're playing to win. They're doing everything they can to play by the rules and trying to cover all there bases no matter how this plays out. Not so with Toque. So why doesn't Toque cover all the bases to ensure they have the US market covered? That's all I'm trying to say.

My guess is that it has to do with the expense of getting a chemical breakdown of each and every product you offer and the mountains of paper work involved. Smaller companies just might not be able to comply where as larger companies that already have chemist are able to jump through the hoops with less strain. But it is just a guess.

But remember Roderick is not making a blind leap here. He has talked with the US Consulate and several government officials. If he feels confident in the assessment he has been given then the regulations and/or setting up a USA site would be a large waist of money. If Roderick is right then the USA based businesses will not be able to compete with the overseas store. Compliance then would be a huge waist of money

That said, let me add that even if JT and the others are wrong for the moment………..they will not be wrong for long. It will not be long until Big Tobacco pushes for regulations that will cut off foreign markets just as PACT cuts off domestic competition (this of course assumes that Big Tobacco sees snus as a genuine threat to the tobacco/cigarette market share. For now that is not the case in the USA but snus has got their attention and they will be keeping a close eye on it)

Just my 2 cents and a whole lot of guessing……….so please take it for what it is worth


dog 8)

.

[BuLLitz]

We got SNOOKERED.

Here we were thinking that because Swedish Snus were regulated by THEIR FDA they were safer because their Government knew what was in them.

If that were true, it would not be a problem for these companies to provide that info to OUR FDA.

Signed,
BAMBOOZLED

[Snusdog]

We got SNOOKERED.

Here we were thinking that because Swedish Snus were regulated by THEIR FDA they were safer because their Government knew what was in them.

If that were true, it would not be a problem for these companies to provide that info to OUR FDA.

Signed,
BAMBOOZLED

Now that is a stunning point that never even crossed my mind. Well done BL

I would love to here Patrick's take on this since his is one of the companies that has complied.

[BuLLitz]

We got SNOOKERED.

Here we were thinking that because Swedish Snus were regulated by THEIR FDA they were safer because their Government knew what was in them.

If that were true, it would not be a problem for these companies to provide that info to OUR FDA.

Signed,
BAMBOOZLED

Now that is a stunning point that never even crossed my mind. Well done BL

I would love to here Patrick's take on this since his is one of the companies that has complied.

Indeed.

I'm just a bit pissed off... The only snus I do is oomph and that won't be available.

So, to be prepared, I went out and tried the patch (nicoderm) today instead.
It just doesn't have as good of flavor and tends to stick to my lip.

:shock:

:lol:

[stubby2]

I'm just a bit pissed off... The only snus I do is oomph and that won't be available.

So, to be prepared, I went out and tried the patch (nicoderm) today instead.
It just doesn't have as good of flavor and tends to stick to my lip.

:shock:

:lol:

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I very well could be, but I thought Northerner said TillCe has complied. They are the makers of Oomph. It never did show up in a US warehouse but that could change.

[sgreger1]

I think we should support both sides here, really. I think toque should say screw the man and I think Northerner et all should comply to the new laws.

Then we can find out who was right.


But, in the long run, I maintain that Northerner, as a large company, is making the most strategic long term decision here.

Lets say Toque is right: It will result in him having lower prices and will make more money in the short term.

Lets say Northerner is right: Toque will still get away with skipping around the rules for a while, but we all know that the eventual end game goal of the US is to have complete control. At some point in time, they will close the last few remaining loopholes (there is no doubt in my mind) and that will force anyone selling snus in or to Americans to follow regulations and everyone will have to follow the rules or not sell in the USDM.

Once these loopholes are are closed, Northerner will already have been following them for some time and will have a lead on the competition. Other stragglers will be forced to do all the paperwork last minute, and of course raise their prices. The sudden raise in prices will be viewed as a negative thing by the consumer and they may go back to buying from larger entities such as northerner since the prices are all relitavely equal.

Just my two cents.

[Snusdog]

We got SNOOKERED.

Here we were thinking that because Swedish Snus were regulated by THEIR FDA they were safer because their Government knew what was in them.

If that were true, it would not be a problem for these companies to provide that info to OUR FDA.

Signed,
BAMBOOZLED

Now that is a stunning point that never even crossed my mind. Well done BL

I would love to here Patrick's take on this since his is one of the companies that has complied.

Indeed.

I'm just a bit pissed off... The only snus I do is oomph and that won't be available.

So, to be prepared, I went out and tried the patch (nicoderm) today instead.
It just doesn't have as good of flavor and tends to stick to my lip.

:shock:

:lol:

BL,

Maybe I am suffering from denial and partial delusion but I really do think you will be able to get your snus.

Besides I thought the patches were rectal (kind of nicotine laced suppositories) :shock:

.

[BuLLitz]

I'm just a bit pissed off... The only snus I do is oomph and that won't be available.

So, to be prepared, I went out and tried the patch (nicoderm) today instead.
It just doesn't have as good of flavor and tends to stick to my lip.

:shock:

:lol:

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I very well could be, but I thought Northerner said TillCe has complied. They are the makers of Oomph. It never did show up in a US warehouse but that could change.

I went back and re-read it. You are right. That's a relief... I was about to take Dog's advice on where to put the patch. :?