PACT: A most regrettable liaison

[Snusdog]

(To be read with a formal southern draw)

In a turn of unfortunate events and in the grim light of austere revelation, it pains me to inform you all that I was indeed less than correct regarding my understanding of the PACT ACT and JT was beyond deception in his.

In a bid for clarity, I wrote the Postmaster General of the United Sates seeking an fair exegesis of the Pact Act and an indication of the intended manner of his implementation of the same said law. The following retells that most sad liaison and the sorrow that must touch us all.

With deep regret, I remain yours respectfully,

Dog,
Esquire,
Lifter of the leg,
Licker of the balls,
Chaser of cats

Dear Postmaster General

My name is __________. I am hopeful that you can clarify a point for me concerning the PACT ACT.

Will the PACT ACT alter existing international laws and trade agreements that currently allow legal international sales of snuff and snus to be shipped from overseas merchants to private consumers like me by way of the USPS?

In other words, will it still be legal for these merchants to ship their goods to me from overseas using the USPS?

Thank you for your help in this matter.


Yours truly, __________.

Dear __________

This is to respond to your email to the Postmaster General, for whom I am writing.

The PACT Act was enacted on March 31, 2010. Its provisions will become effective 90 days after enactment, and the Postal Service is granted up to 180 days to publish a final rule to give effect to limited exceptions to the general nonmailability prohibitions for cigarettes and smokeless tobacco. At this time, the Postal Service is conducting a review of the Act and determining its application to a variety of transactions. We are unable to offer definitive advice at this time in response to your query; however, our preliminary understanding of the Act is that it would prohibit all sales transactions of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco sent by businesses to consumers conducted by USPS mail, regardless of whether they originate abroad or in the United States.

Thank you for contacting the United States Postal Service.

Sincerely,

Robert________
Postal Service Headquarters

Dear Mr.,

Thank you so much for your response. As a consumer of Swedish snus, I am hoping that your decision will continue to allow this product to be shipped to consumers in the USA.

In your response, you wrote,
“our preliminary understanding of the Act is that it would prohibit all sales transactions of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco sent by businesses to consumers conducted by USPS mail, regardless of whether they originate abroad or in the United States.”

Would this not be a violation of such agreements as the Universal Postal Convention (September 15, 1999 and revised by the UPC in 2004 and 2009.) as well as the World Trade Alliance both of which have declared tobacco legal and legitimate for mail through the member countries postal system?

I understand that your answer is preliminary but any insight you may have on above concern would be greatly appreciated.

Yours truly________________.

Dear Mr. ______________,
This responds to your query below. Under Article 15 of the Universal Postal Convention, each Universal Postal Union (UPU) member may list its country-specific mailability prohibitions. These country-specific prohibitions appear in the UPU List of Prohibited Articles. At the appropriate time, the United States Government will update its country listing to advise other UPU members of restrictions on tobacco mailability resulting from the PACT Act. We are not familiar with the “World Trade Alliance;” however, we are not aware of any obligations made by the United States under World Trade Organization agreements or other international treaties that would prevent the United States from regulating the mailability of tobacco products sent by international mail.

Thank you for your interest.

Sincerely,

Robert _______________
Postal Service Headquarters.

dog :evil:

.

[lxskllr]

Well, I can't say I'm surprised. Look at the bright side; there's always the black market. You don't have to follow rules of any kind when you're in the black :^D

[Bigblue1]

This is not good. I wonder what Tom and Dave from nic rush and Mr.snuff are going to think when they read this. It appears they are already moving there operations to the UK to dodge Pact.

[Snusdog]

This is outrage of the most egregious sort

I am offended by the audacity of this law

It has insulted all standards of refinement and civilization

When sane institutions have turned dark, there is no manner by which to distinguish black markets

[Snusdog]

This is not good. I wonder what Tom and Dave from nic rush and Mr.snuff are going to think when they read this. It appears they are already moving there operations to the UK to dodge Pact.

In all seriousness, this is not the final word……………… but it certainly does not bode well at least in theory.

In an email I received earlier today from Roderick (of Toque snuff) he told me that the responses that he, Tom and David have gotten from officials on both sides of the pond have been mixed but that the general consensus has been that the USA will have to honor the Berne Agreement (UPC).

Only time will tell………in the meantime…………… all the money has moved off the dog and onto the knight

[Bigblue1]

Well, Tom is a retired postal carrier. So I'm sure he's delivered enough mail to know how to make it go "unnoticed". And at least they won't have to comply with all the regulations that come with pact act. So I guess the could just send stuff through private carrier, no?

[GoVegan]

It doesn't matter, as soon as somebody finds a loophole the government will just amend the law to close it.

[f. bandersnatch]

Thanks for the investigative research dog. It is much appreciated, albeit in a very depressing way. Just remember that any type of interpretation that the USPS comes up with will only be followed to the best of their ability in the status quo. By that I mean: they can say whatever they want, they will continue to do a shitty job inspecting and regulating overseas shipments either way. I hope no terrorists are listening.

I am still holding out hope that the postal unions will recognize that PACT represents a loss in available work for their members, and they will not bother about it too much one way or the other. Fingers crossed.

[shikitohno]

I really see this as unenforceable, so I'm not too concerned as long as snuff and snus shops online don't panic and close up. Think about the sheer numbers of drugs that enter the country through USPS. They have dogs whose only job is to find them, and they still only get a portion of what comes through. You might have one or two packages seized every year, but especially if there's no packing list included (like my last Mr.Snuff order), I'll just try and bs my way into taking it home as a private shipment between friends.

Besides, with my stockpile, I won't be in any dire need for a couple years.

[/dev/null]

It doesn't matter, as soon as somebody finds a loophole the government will just amend the law to close it.

I think you're overestimating how quickly the US government can act.

[Zanaspus]

I find it hard to imagine that the same postal service that allows tens of thousands of illegal boxes of Cuban cigars into the country each year is somehow going to stop shipments of frowned upon merchandise.

Just my thought.

[MojoQuestor]

Besides, with my stockpile, I won't be in any dire need for a couple years.

That's me, pretty much. By the time my hoard is snused or dried up, if I'm still strolling the planet, I expect to be either done with snus or else a-farmin' and a-cookin' like JT and company.

[justintempler]

There will be smuggling going on but the days of openly ordering snus from the internet with your credit card from overseas will be over.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=s111-1147

‘(e) List of Unregistered or Noncompliant Delivery Sellers-

‘(1) IN GENERAL-

‘(A) INITIAL LIST- Not later than 90 days after this subsection goes into effect under the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009, the Attorney General of the United States shall compile a list of delivery sellers of cigarettes or smokeless tobacco that have not registered with the Attorney General of the United States pursuant to section 2(a), or that are otherwise not in compliance with this Act, and--

‘(i) distribute the list to--

‘(I) the attorney general and tax administrator of every State;

‘(II) common carriers and other persons that deliver small packages to consumers in interstate commerce, including the United States Postal Service; and

‘(III) any other person that the Attorney General of the United States determines can promote the effective enforcement of this Act; and

‘(ii) publicize and make the list available to any other person engaged in the business of interstate deliveries or who delivers cigarettes or smokeless tobacco in or into any State.

‘(B) LIST CONTENTS- To the extent known, the Attorney General of the United States shall include, for each delivery seller on the list described in subparagraph (A)--

‘(i) all names the delivery seller uses or has used in the transaction of its business or on packages delivered to customers;

‘(ii) all addresses from which the delivery seller does or has done business, or ships or has shipped cigarettes or smokeless tobacco;

‘(iii) the website addresses, primary e-mail address, and phone number of the delivery seller; and

‘(iv) any other information that the Attorney General of the United States determines would facilitate compliance with this subsection by recipients of the list.

‘(C) UPDATING- The Attorney General of the United States shall update and distribute the list described in subparagraph (A) at least once every 4 months, and may distribute the list and any updates by regular mail, electronic mail, or any other reasonable means, or by providing recipients with access to the list through a nonpublic website that the Attorney General of the United States regularly updates.

so basically every 4 months the Attorney Generals of all 50 states and USPS will get an updated unpublished list of any seller that gets caught breaking the rules.

If a seller openly flaunts non-compliance, (at the very least,) I would assume they will put pressure on the ip server hosting the website and credit card companies to shut them down.

[tom502]

This doesn't suprise me, and I know it's not the for sure final word yet. But the idea that you can't mail it in the US, but it's fine and dandy to have it imported, just seemed to optimistic to me. But that's USPS. What about state taxes on orders? Will they be allowed to be shipped UPS? Will overseas shops comply with adding state taxes? It's all so confusing.

Glad I just made a Nicotine Rush order the other day.
Some concerns about that snuff to the UK, wondering if they will be able to sell the American snuffs, they say yes, but you know it is with the UK, you can't sell Skoal, or General even.

And I like the Indian snuffs, and I asked a UK seller if they could get some, and they wrote back, saying they didn't meet their health criteria, or something, I think she made that up, as they do sell Dholakia, but I wonder if this move will inhibit 5 Photo or Sun Snuffs?

It's all seems such an injustice, I took today off work, feeling out of it, maybe I need coffee, so excuse me if this post goes all over.

[BadAxe]

This doesn't suprise me, and I know it's not the for sure final word yet. But the idea that you can't mail it in the US, but it's fine and dandy to have it imported, just seemed to optimistic to me. But that's USPS. What about state taxes on orders? Will they be allowed to be shipped UPS? Will overseas shops comply with adding state taxes? It's all so confusing.

Yea, now i am very confused, because of the companies are going to charge state taxes on something that they are not even allowed to ship here, that doesn't make sense. And they can't charge state taxes on something that may get to us just because usps is bad a their package inspections. So its either that it will still be allowed and all taxes will be collected at checkout, or its not allowed and not taxed. It can not be "not allowed" and "taxed" at the same time, can it?