General Principles

[Darwin]

One factor I don't remember being discussed is that chain and convenience stores may not be too enthusiastic about carrying Swedish snus for a simple reason. We all know that the beginning snus user almost always cuts his cigarette usage way down and most vets hardly smoke at all. A can of snus will sell, at most, for about the same as a pack of premium cigs but snus usage averages about one can every three or four days as opposed to one to two packs a day for cigs. This clearly means that a retailer's gross sales will fall as snus usage increases. This will be the case even if snus is priced at up to twice what we pay online and may not be a very attractive proposition for the typical retailer, even one whose cig sales have been falling.

This may sound short sighted but it could take quite a few years for snus to achieve a market penetration worthy of the attention of convenience stores, liquor outlets, smoke shops etc. Virtually all snus sales will displace other tobacco sales and will likely reduce a shop's bottom line. Snus profit margins may be higher than cigarettes or dip but they would have to much much higher for this effect to not occur. It likely will be a commercially viable product in the fullness of time but it may take a decade for this to happen.

[WickedKitchen]

I think Darwin has a good point. I have often thought that it was a sort of unspoken strong arm technique used to keep Swedish snus out of the US market. This would obviously take market share away from companies that have long been entrenched in our society and government. Market share that is one that can be counted on to buy the same product repeatedly and often. It's different than letting another foreign product in due to the addiction component, ease of use, and discretion. Hell, if the mainstream media gets behind snus big US tobacco will be forced to follow suit just to stay competitive. It'll take a long time and human nature is usually opposed to change especially when it comes to tradition, brand loyalty, and addiction.

[Fury]

No one buys the snus at the cigar shops down here, everything I found was WAY past due date. I would not trust the people at the gas stations/convenience stores to properly store snus, they look like they don't even want to do what they already have to do at their jobs. There are no real tobacco shops down here in S. Florida, just cigar shops that MIGHT carry some pipe tobacco also. Hopefully I have around 12 or so rolls in the freezer by the time pact act goes into effect, maybe that will hold me over till my financial situation improves so I can afford snus with the new taxes added. Only real way for me to get snus in mailorder, without that, I'd just have to quit.

[stubby2]

My .02 cents on brick and mortar sales of snus is that, as much as I hate the PACT act, it may help with B&M sales of snus. At the moment it doesn't make sense for me to get it locally because of taxes. If I have to pay no matter where I buy snus it makes buying locally a lot more attractive. I'd love it if I could go to my local store and get at least something besides US made snus.

I do agree that more choice then general line would be a good thing. Bergamot may not be the best for beginner snus users as it's more of an acquired taste. I think Ettan, Grov, 01/02, and RL would do well in the US. Better then General, with mint and wintergreen being he exceptions as they're made for the US market.

[Darwin]

Bergamot's flavor may be the real traditional deal in Sweden but from what I've seen on this forum and from other sources is that appreciation of it is a very iffy thing for American palates, at least at first. Like so many I struggled to appreciate it in the first few weeks but have come to actually like it some months later. Nevertheless I think a more productive approach for SM would be to offer a starter package of say six types to retailers with more variety than the General brand alone can muster. Start with Gen. Mint and Gen. Wintergreen, add Gen. Sterk for the craving crusher (and to introduce bergamot) along with Ettan OP, Lab 01, and either RL, GR, or one of the Catch family. Such a six-pack would be a decently representative range for a noob to try out and SM could even package tryout boxes of that selection for retailers to offer. Limiting choice to General alone leaves out straight tobacco flavors which I think is a mistake.

[PipenSnus]

Good point, Darwin. I agree that the samplers should contain a variety of flavored and non-flavored snus, and be tailored for the American palate. Hell, I think most of us here would be only too happy to participate in any focus groups SM (or any other snus manufacturer) cared to set up in our areas, especially if they're asking us to taste-test. Am I right, folks?

[timholian]

Good point, Darwin. I agree that the samplers should contain a variety of flavored and non-flavored snus, and be tailored for the American palate. Hell, I think most of us here would be only too happy to participate in any focus groups SM (or any other snus manufacturer) cared to set up in our areas, especially if they're asking us to taste-test. Am I right, folks?

Absolutely!

[stones]

I think once people try it it will take off there is one place near me that carries general at 5.50 a can have bought 2 general white portions from them in 7 months they pretty much stay sold out the camel fridge is next to the general fridge and they can't even give that stuff away. So I think with a wide retail network general will easily dominate the snus market in a few years.But I am in agreement that ettan and some if not all the catch lines should be included in the roll out

[lxskllr]

I'm 100% against Americanizing snus. Americans need to be told what tastes good, not asked. If a scotch distiller had a focus group asking what kind of scotch Americans wanted, the final product would be sour cherry vodka. Snus may not be immediately approachable by the typical American, but given a short amount of time, they'll come around to it. Instead of aiming for the lowest common denominator, they should bring the masses up to their level.

[Zanaspus]

I'm 100% against Americanizing snus. Americans need to be told what tastes good, not asked. If a scotch distiller had a focus group asking what kind of scotch Americans wanted, the final product would be sour cherry vodka. Snus may not be immediately approachable by the typical American, but given a short amount of time, they'll come around to it. Instead of aiming for the lowest common denominator, they should bring the masses up to their level.

+1

[chadizzy1]

I'm 100% against Americanizing snus. Americans need to be told what tastes good, not asked. If a scotch distiller had a focus group asking what kind of scotch Americans wanted, the final product would be sour cherry vodka. Snus may not be immediately approachable by the typical American, but given a short amount of time, they'll come around to it. Instead of aiming for the lowest common denominator, they should bring the masses up to their level.

It's like Mexicans making Italian food at Carino's. Sure, it's close to the original, but it's just not the same.

[daruckis]

I'm 100% against Americanizing snus. Americans need to be told what tastes good, not asked. If a scotch distiller had a focus group asking what kind of scotch Americans wanted, the final product would be sour cherry vodka. Snus may not be immediately approachable by the typical American, but given a short amount of time, they'll come around to it. Instead of aiming for the lowest common denominator, they should bring the masses up to their level.

+1 this this the most well put point on the subject of american snus.

[jamesstew]

+1 this this the most well put point on the subject of american snus.

this^^^^^

[jamesstew]

this^^^^^

case in point; Klondike. Yuck!

[chadizzy1]

But then again, Tom at Discreet uses pasteurization to make his snus, and he produced a "Swedish Style" that several of us here got to sample that tasted pretty good. There are people who can get close, but again - it is about a standard.