Newbie User Log

[deeanne59]

So far this week, on a daily basis, I have used:

7-9 mini portions
1 ml. 24 mg. e-liquid (vaping)
7 uses of snuff

I hope to find my level soon. If I add everything up. I am averaging between 60 and 65 mg. of nic, but I know that I am not absorbing that much.

By the way...I LOVE snuff, now that my nose is getting used to it. Also, my snus are not bothering me the way they were before (burning throat, nausea, etc.). I actually caught myself yesterday trying to "milk" my Discreet Peach snus to turn loose of all that delicious flavor.

I think I still need to go ahead and try Thunder Frost mini or regular portions, to help cut down on my usage during the day.

How often can you use snuff? I have found myself almost wanting to "chain sniff" the Dholakia Swiss Chocolate! So far, that is my favorite. Second is my QWS Irish Coffee.

Any help on my usage schedule would be appreciated.

[Veganpunk]

Re: Newbie User Log

How often can you use snuff? I have found myself almost wanting to "chain sniff" the Dholakia Swiss Chocolate! So far, that is my favorite. Second is my QWS Irish Coffee.

Any help on my usage schedule would be appreciated.

I'm curious about this too.

[Karanya]

Re: Newbie User Log

So far this week, on a daily basis, I have used:

7-9 mini portions
1 ml. 24 mg. e-liquid (vaping)
7 uses of snuff

I hope to find my level soon. If I add everything up. I am averaging between 60 and 65 mg. of nic, but I know that I am not absorbing that much.

Nowhere near that much is absorbed. I know for snus, it's 10 to 20%, and I believe about 10% on the e-liquid. No idea on the snuff.

Also, keep in mind if you're using Discreet that despite the 7.4 mg of nicotine per portion, they really don't seem to do any more than a Swedish 4mg mini.

In my experience, they feel like they deliver *less* nicotine than a Swedish mini. This is probably a pH issue... higher pH = more nicotine actually absorbed (rather than left in the pouch or swallowed).

Discreet is tasty, though.

Just for comparison's sake, here's my usage statistics:

Six months ago: I smoked two packs (sometimes three) of cigarettes a day.

Three months ago: I used 4 to 5 ml of 48mg e-liquid each day, plus smoked between two and five cigarettes.

Now: I use about 12 regular portions, 4 to 6 starks and 2 extra starks each day. I vape a little bit of 24mg here and there.. maybe one ml a week, if that. I no longer smoke cigarettes at all, though I enjoy a cigar from time to time.

I *feel* like in each case I'm getting about the same amount of nicotine. I have no desire whatsoever to cut back nor have I made the slightest bit of effort to contain my use of any nicotine-containing products.

Keep in mind I'm a hedonist of the worst sort. I eat whatever I like, drink whatever I like, consume whatever amount of nicotine I like, etc. The only reason I have the slightest idea of my consumption of snus is because I kept track for a few days to figure out how much I needed to buy to have a two-week backup supply (in case of shipping problems).

Oh, and for what it's worth, I have a portion in for 16 to 18 hours a day. I haven't experienced the slightest problem other than minor irritation on the inside of my lip for the first two days.

My personal opinion is that you should experiment with a variety of strengths until you find what leaves you feeling fully satisfied, or whether you need to vary it depending on the situation (as I do). And then do whatever leaves you feeling best, even if it means a larger-than-average nicotine intake. Snus is both cheap and low-harm. The stress of trying to limit your nicotine intake is probably more harmful than just using stronger portions (or more portions).

--K

[sagedil]

NOT the Thunder Mini's my friend, please, please, the full size.

I want to make sure you are getting enough nicotine to feel completely comfortable putting the Vape down.

As far as schedule, that's easy. Use enough so you don't feel like you need anything else

[deeanne59]

Re: Newbie User Log

Now: I use about 12 regular portions, 4 to 6 starks and 2 extra starks each day. I vape a little bit of 24mg here and there.. maybe one ml a week, if that. I no longer smoke cigarettes at all, though I enjoy a cigar from time to time.

I *feel* like in each case I'm getting about the same amount of nicotine. I have no desire whatsoever to cut back nor have I made the slightest bit of effort to contain my use of any nicotine-containing products.

Keep in mind I'm a hedonist of the worst sort. I eat whatever I like, drink whatever I like, consume whatever amount of nicotine I like, etc. The only reason I have the slightest idea of my consumption of snus is because I kept track for a few days to figure out how much I needed to buy to have a two-week backup supply (in case of shipping problems).

Oh, and for what it's worth, I have a portion in for 16 to 18 hours a day. I haven't experienced the slightest problem other than minor irritation on the inside of my lip for the first two days.


--K

Thanks Karanya...I am trying to find my comfort zone as well. Right now, it will be a week or two before I can buy anymore snus...so I am trying to make do with what I have.Hopefully, I will be able to stock my fridge with bigger, better things. 8)

NOT the Thunder Mini's my friend, please, please, the full size.

I want to make sure you are getting enough nicotine to feel completely comfortable putting the Vape down.

As far as schedule, that's easy. Use enough so you don't feel like you need anything else

Hello my friend! Sorry I haven't posted in a little while (work gets in the way )...evidently it seems to be important to get away from vaping....I think I am using it as a crutch because it soooo replaces a cigarette, in feel and use. I keep thinking that I HAVE to have that throat hit to feel satisfied- probably all in my mind, but I have never tested my theory.

I never considered the idea of "not using anything else"...this is different, in a GOOD way, I guess. I am finding that I like snus and snuff (well, SOME kinds of snus, anyway).

Sage...what about my question on snuff, how often is too often? The first day I tried it, I had used it 5 times before I knew it. I am serious about wanting to chain snort the chocolate! I found that the Absinthe is a little stout yet for me. Everytime I try to use it, it burns so bad that I put it back in the cabinet. I can't smell it very long...and I can't taste it at all.

Should I keep adding mini portions to my day until I feel satisfied( until I can get regular)? I have one packet of General Wintergreen regular portions to use, but the rest is minis (General mini mint, Mocca Pomegranate, Catch Violet/Licorice, and Discreet).

[tom502]

My snuff experience was I loved it when I 1st tried a proper nasal snuff, it was Jaxons Cherry menthol. I quickly started to chain snuffing all the time. I really like the menthols for the cool hitting effect. I also snuffed non-menthols. But then one day, it seemed to have caught up with me, and I got totally stopped up, terribly. I was sticking Vicks up my nose, got some nasal spray. I couldn't sleep, as I could not breathe through my nose at all. The spray worked a little at 1st, but didn't last. I suffered like this a few days, even trying to snuff as well as times. I was not snusing then. I thought maybe it was weather related, maybe so, I don't know. But I took a few days off snuff, and during that time, I started snus. I hear from many it's the menthol. I think for me, is was a combination, menthol, and just over-use of all snuffs, weather changing to summer. Even now my sinuses are not like they were. I've been snuffing a bit these last few days, but sticking to non-menthols, but I am not chain snuffing, and only doing it maybe 3 times a day. I think I could do a small amount of menthol, but very small, and a good time between snuffs. I have a neti pot I might use again too.

So, as far as usage amount of snuff, I'd be careful, and say, don't chain snuff, maybe a little snuff every hour or more. And if using a menthol, be even more sparing. Of course this means 1 tin will last forever. As far as snuff amount to sniff, I'd say maybe an apple seed or slightly more. Don't lay out big lines, I was actually doing that. And don't snort, it's not meant to go in the lungs, just to coat the inside of the nose.

[sagedil]

Re: Newbie User Log

Hello my friend! Sorry I haven't posted in a little while (work gets in the way )...evidently it seems to be important to get away from vaping....I think I am using it as a crutch because it soooo replaces a cigarette, in feel and use. I keep thinking that I HAVE to have that throat hit to feel satisfied- probably all in my mind, but I have never tested my theory.

I never considered the idea of "not using anything else"...this is different, in a GOOD way, I guess. I am finding that I like snus and snuff (well, SOME kinds of snus, anyway).

Sage...what about my question on snuff, how often is too often? The first day I tried it, I had used it 5 times before I knew it. I am serious about wanting to chain snort the chocolate! I found that the Absinthe is a little stout yet for me. Everytime I try to use it, it burns so bad that I put it back in the cabinet. I can't smell it very long...and I can't taste it at all.

Should I keep adding mini portions to my day until I feel satisfied( until I can get regular)? I have one packet of General Wintergreen regular portions to use, but the rest is minis (General mini mint, Mocca Pomegranate, Catch Violet/Licorice, and Discreet).

As far as snuff usage, I am completely all over the map on that one. Some days, I may use it 30 times, other days, i may only reach for it twice. No rhyme or reason, just my mood I guess. Use it if you want, don't use it if you want, whatever feels right, just do.

As for the Absinthe, that is an interesting snuff. I loved the flavor, but quickly found it to be just "too much"?? So much so, I actually gave away my tin in the first box exchange, but will eventually buy it again just for that one day I want it. But NOT a snuff I can do all the time.

Snuffs I can do all the time, ALL day and then some...

Toque Coke
Toque whiskey and Honey
Toque Pomegranate

Any of those above three, I tend to use at least 3x more in a day than anything else

I really think you are just using the Vape as a crutch. Why I so want you to start using super strong snus, will just make you feel so much easier not having to Vape. At least with my experiencing vaping "other", there is an addictive part of that process that goes beyond just the nicotine. I honestly believe that it is harder to quit that than even cigarettes.

Yes, keep just using as much snus as you can, especially with the minis, I literally have been chain snusing from the moment I get up to the moment I finally go to sleep for almost 3 years now. Every blue moon, I may go an hour or two without, but that is VERY rare.

One last thing about using snuff. If you are using menthol snuff, do NOT over do it, you will screw your nose up. Personally, I find that stuff disgusting and won't use it. Non mentholated snuff, i have yet to find I have used too much, and have had days I did several grams worth

[deeanne59]

Thank you Tom502...I don't want a plugged up nose, I can't STAND that!
I'll try to space it out alot more. I also try to use Ocean Nasal Spray between uses, trying to clean out the residue between sniffs.

[stubby2]

Re: Newbie User Log

I never considered the idea of "not using anything else"...this is different, in a GOOD way, I guess. I am finding that I like snus and snuff (well, SOME kinds of snus, anyway).

This brings to mind a recent experience I had with e-cigs, but before I do, keep in mind that everyone is different so you kind of have to find your own way in regard to what works and what doesn't.

I started out with e-cigs, never could quit smoking, but did cut down. After starting to use snus I quit smoking within 2 weeks. That was about 5 months ago. I quit using the e-cig a few weeks later, just to much hassle and I wasn't getting enough nicotine to make it worthwhile.

About a week ago, out of curiosity, I dusted off the e-cig and fired it up, and had some very interesting experiences. I immediately got slammed by the whole hand to mouth oral fixation thing. I just wanted to chain vape the damn thing, which of course was not very satisfying, and then I wanted a cigarette, something I hadn't thought about for a while.

For me e-cigs acted as a trigger. It's just to close to the real thing.

If I remember right it took around 2 to 4 weeks to get over the worst of the habit part of smoking/vaping. After that it just gradually tapered off until I rarely thought about it. If things got a little to intense I just slammed myself with a good hit of nicotine via snus. It was all going good until I tried the e-cig again.

Old habits die hard, and for me I just have to stay away from the hand to mouth thing. After 40 years of smoking it's just to close. At this point I'd rather just occasionally have a real cigarette and be done with it. At least I'd get some real nicotine. I had one a few months ago and it was just not a big deal. Didn't want another one, but I did want a snus.

Your milage may, and probably will vary, but that's my story and I'm sticking with it.

[sagedil]

Thank you Tom502...I don't want a plugged up nose, I can't STAND that!
I'll try to space it out alot more. I also try to use Ocean Nasal Spray between uses, trying to clean out the residue between sniffs.

deeanne59, if you are not using menthol snuff, this really just isn't necessary. I haven't used Ocean in at least 5 months. I do try to make sure I get everything clean each morning in the shower. But other than that, just isn't an issue.

[deeanne59]

Oh, OK sage...I don't use menthol snuff (unless the Absinthe is mentholated)...I only use menthol crystals for vaping 0-nic juice to get throat hit...and I didn't smoke menthol- isn't that crazy?

On the snuff...I know that I don't have the technique down yet, because some snuff goes right to the throat (burns bad)..and some sniffs are just right. The first one I used that went right to the throat was the Absinthe...thought I was gonna die- that is strong! I started tilting the bullet forward after that. Works better, but it has a tendency to cake it all right there at the opening of my nose (can you tell I am new at this :lol: ). I have tried the "holding my breathe" method, but don't quite have it down yet.

Stubby: Yes, I think the hand to mouth fixation is what is killing my efforts. That, and my OCD. My "routine" now includes vaping, at certain times and certain places. This makes breaking the habit even worse for me, because it is compulsive...if I break the routine, I panic. I do the same thing with routines in my day. I do certain things at certain times. If anything comes up to interrupt that routine, I panic...feeling that I am "running late". Plus, add to that the ingrained thought that I HAVE TO HAVE a throat hit to be satisfied. Everytime I tried to vape 0-nic liquid, it almost brought on a panic because I didn't feel anything in my throat...it didn't satisfy my need.

I guess I am going to be a hard case...calling all snusers and snuffers- rescue me from my attitudes and habits .

[stubby2]

Plus, add to that the ingrained thought that I HAVE TO HAVE a throat hit to be satisfied. Everytime I tried to vape 0-nic liquid, it almost brought on a panic because I didn't feel anything in my throat...it didn't satisfy my need.

Interesting about the throat hit. I think as long time smokers we've wired ourselves to think; throat hit, nicotine, ahhhh, it's all good now.

The problem I had with e-cigs is that you kind of get the throat hit (or at least close enough), nicotine, ahhhh, Hey, just wait one &*%$ second, this isn't quite right. After a while your brain figures out that the nicotine is just not there, or at least not in the quantity we need. Little wonder some of us get a little crazy with this stuff. Some of us just NEED OUR NICOTINE TO FUNCTION.

It took a bit of time to rewire my brain. Now when I put a snus in my brain goes; nicotine, ahhh, it's all good now. It just takes some time.

[deeanne59]

I think that is all I need Stubby...time. I think I hit that "wait a minute" point last Saturday, which is the day I originally posted about. The one where I was in a panic attack because I didn't have enough nicotine. I was sitting here vaping away, but my nicotine craving kicked in big time. I kept on taking draws on my PV, to the point of heating the atomizer too much, and STILL couldn't get what I needed. I started using 2 PVs at the same time trying to get it, but it didn't work.

Right now, there are times when I am sucking on this PV so much and so hard, that I think it is going to melt! In my OP, I mentioned now using multiple methods for nic...that is working to keep my mind focused off of cigs, but only because of the PV crutch. THAT is the monster I am going to have to kill to move forward. I am stuck right now using mini portions until I can get some stronger snus, and I will also spread out and try some other snuffs.

As for ECF...now I only follow Tropical Bob in his Smokeless Tobacco Subforum...right now I am detecting too much of the "us vs them" tone on the main forum to suit me. When you mention snus or snuff as viable alternatives...their "nasty tobacco" fangs come out and they are ready for a fight...not my thing. Oh, don't get me wrong...ECF and vaping got me off of smoking, but it is not keeping my nicotine fix satisfied. There is nothing that says I have to quit my beloved nicotine if I don't want to.

[Mr. Snuffleupagus]

I think you are doing great and well on track. I went through it almost a year ago...

Screwdriver, 36 mg juice, chain vaping. Quit "analogs" for a month. And then bam, massive panic attacks. Actually thought I was ODing on nic! Went back to smokes for a couple weeks and started snusing mini portions because I was still afraid and having bad anxiety issues.

Over time I switched to regular portions, then sterks and extra sterks for first thing in the morning and while drinking.

Everything got a lot better for me! I've had 2 ciggs in almost a year just for fun.

Thanks for sharing your story. You are in a very exciting point in your life. Enjoy it!

[deeanne59]

Hello Mr. Snuffleupagus! I didn't realize there are so many vaperers and former vaperers on this forum! Thank you for your words of encouragement....I need all the help I can get :lol: . Vaping seemed to be a viable alternative for me to begin with- getting my nicotine without the smoke and byproducts...but I didn't know that it would be this weak in nicotine delivery. I noticed that many vaperers are no longer posting on ECF...didn't know if they got tired of the board, went back to "analogs", or what happened to them. I guess they were strong nic users and got to this point themselves.

Right now, TB's Smokeless Tobacco Forum is almost dead...guess there isn't much interest over there, unless it is just now catching on. I saw someone over there just innocently mention TB's use of a snus in a PV...and tobacco attackers came out of the woodwork! It is a shame...I wonder how many vaperers are in the same shape I am, and can't get the help they need with snus and snuff- because other forms of nicotine delivery just isn't allowed in conversation elsewhere.