Northerner Delays

[brant]

Well Brant, we can't all "just get along" because this world we live in has a large population of scumbags. And those scumbags have nothing more on their minds except how to screw over their neighbors in order to increase the size of their own bank account.
You can't reason with or trust people like this. All you can do is put them in their place however possible.

i hear ya, scylla ... i understand you are making a point ... but i was being sarcastic ... i am with you, it's never quite an even playing field ...

[brant]

Where's fredrick? He seemed to have a better grip on all this. Frank that post did you no favors..... It sounded pretty bad. I hate to say this but I will prolly only make 1 more order with you, only 2 get my free roll. after that It will be someone else. sad to say but it's true. You should not be trying to hurt your friends by making sure the other options are defeated. You should make sure you are taking care of your customesr, then you wouldn't have to worry about it. Seriously. you owned this thing, but apparently have lost the correct perspective.

from my understanding, fredrick is with skruf - can anyone confirm?

[Northerner.com]

Hey,
I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone. Does anyone remember how it use to be before all tobacco regulations in Europe and the US? I'm just so *>'-_* frustrated about all these political issues. For EU it's easy to target on a small niche product when the big blue "pharmacutical companies are clapping their hands. First Pact Act, then more regulations waiting on the horizon, Swedish customs storming a collegue's office and now they are facing the judge - for selling something less harmful in EU?

Bigblue you are absolutely right - taking care of of our customers is our priority number one. We are working on improving our customer support for sure. One question, would you prefer a 800 number to call?

Frank

[Mykislt]

Hey,
I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone. Does anyone remember how it use to be before all tobacco regulations in Europe and the US? I'm just so *>'-_* frustrated about all these political issues. For EU it's easy to target on a small niche product when the big blue "pharmacutical companies are clapping their hands. First Pact Act, then more regulations waiting on the horizon, Swedish customs storming a collegue's office and now they are facing the judge - for selling something less harmful in EU?

Bigblue you are absolutely right - taking care of of our customers is our priority number one. We are working on improving our customer support for sure. One question, would you prefer a 800 number to call?

Frank

Since you are online, may I ask again,when is Pioneer and Gellivare coming back in stock? And don't say soon.

[cj]

sounds like northerner and obama share the same bed. iam still waiting for my order i made with them been a lil over two weeks now this is the last time i order from them

[lxskllr]

Did Northerner's post here really say that he wanted customs to do their job? That is, help them corner the market for snus here in the U.S.?

Because that is exactly what I took away from his post. What a jagoff. I guess that one post truly reveals Northerner's soul. Just another corporate scallywag doing whatever they can to increase the profit margin. Well anything they can, except run a tight ship and eliminate their own poor service.

And don't give me the spiel about them being such great guys for opening a warehouse here in the U.S. "so we can serve our American friends while still complying with the PACT" b.s.
Dollars to donuts Northerner is whispering in some government guy's ear about how much tax money he's losing from snus shipped from Sweden by Northerner's competition, and how the government should crack down.
Northerner won't get a dime outta me.

And by the way Northerner, it isn't "tax free snus" we order from Sweden, it is snus bought with the express agreement that the buyer is responsible for all taxes owed. If the buyer chooses not to pay it that has nothing to do with the seller. And frankly, it is none of your business.

The Swedish companies like premiumsnus and buysnus sell fresh goods and deliver in a timely manner, unlike you. Obviously, your own failures have led you to grasping at straw excuses like "how unfair" the other guys are.

A few points...

I HIGHLY doubt Northerner's sicing the feds on anyone. We're all in this together, even as competitors. Bringing unwelcome attention to one, brings unwelcome attention to all. I would expect that Northerner, being a small company would understand that.

You can argue semantics all you want, but ordering from Sweden is tax free for you. Taxes should be fresh in everyone's mind right now. I challenge anyone here to post their return that lists online purchases. Any takers?

The tax situation does put Northerner at a disadvantage price wise, and arguing what the consumer should, or shouldn't be doing isn't useful to the argument.

Customer service? You won't get much defense from me. That's been their weak point as long as I've been using snus, and it could use a bit of reworking. My problems have always gotten fixed eventually, but imo the experience could be smoother.

[internope]

Hey,
I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone. Does anyone remember how it use to be before all tobacco regulations in Europe and the US? I'm just so *>'-_* frustrated about all these political issues. For EU it's easy to target on a small niche product when the big blue "pharmacutical companies are clapping their hands. First Pact Act, then more regulations waiting on the horizon, Swedish customs storming a collegue's office and now they are facing the judge - for selling something less harmful in EU?

Bigblue you are absolutely right - taking care of of our customers is our priority number one. We are working on improving our customer support for sure. One question, would you prefer a 800 number to call?

Frank

I appreciate that Northerner has shown a commitment to the US market by investing time and money to deal with the *realities* of the situation. We can speculate all day long and engage in wishful thinking about what loopholes might be legal, but if multiple attorneys advised Northerner against using a European warehouse to skirt the law there is a good chance that they are correct. For anyone that wants to learn about the regulations regarding imports take a look at 19 CFR and 27 CFR part 41 for starters. That is just the tip of the iceberg for a company running a legitimate operation like Northerner has built. On top of that, they have payment processors, FDA and fifty separate states to deal with.

Without a fully compliant web retailer in the USA we would be stuck ordering General from an Indian reservation or ordering dozens of tins at a time from Europe for web sales. Now that the Swedish shops are having trouble shipping to the EU who knows how long they'll be able to stay alive by relying on non-EU sales.

[rickcharles606]

Well....I normally stay out of these types of threads because I don't "handle" the online side of the business, just the US distribution, BUT there are several comments here that just make me a little angry. First, let me say this...I completely understand the frustration of wanting/needing your order to be delivered and having it delayed for whatever reason. It pisses you off, and trust me when I say this...Frank and the entire Northerner crew are working to get them to you, and all issues rectified. He's been selling us snus for over 12yrs now, but with the new issues in the EU there are bound to be a few hiccups.

Some of you either don't remember, or just don't realize what Northerner has risked to come to the US and open a warehouse here, and to be fully PACT compliant. I do, because I'm the guy that handled all the compliance. When gov'ts try and regulate products out of existence, or place bans or over tax or whatever...it's companies like Northerner that make it possible for us to continue getting the product, legally. And I'll add he did this at incredible expense to himself, so that if this new PACT thing was actually enforced (and it will be), he could remain in business for the long haul and continue bringing us our snus. Making the decision to come to the US and be the ONLY company that is compliant with PACT, was a huge risk for Northerner, but our customers need their snus and we need to keep selling it. Was it a good move, I say yes..because it's apparent to me now that PACT will not go away and will be enforced. When it was first passed, most states didn't even know what it was or how they would enforce it. That has changed now, and they know exactly how they will force compliance and some of these other companies that haven't registed with each state will find out how. Is it unfortunate, yep...I never like seeing over regulation, or taxation by our gov't. But it's a reality, and thank God Frank had the foresight to make the decision to get over here and register, etc. Oh and this shit about Frank "blowing the whistle" on his competition...well that's just bullshit. These states aren't stupid people, they know each and every tobacco delivery seller online and they set up their own sting operations. It's actually scary, because I'm sure they've done it to us. One thing I've learned in the last couple years is that in the tobacco business even though we're competitors...we band together against the gov't, regulatory bodies and departments of revenue. We're all in it together. If PACT is going to be enforced, then I want it enforced against ALL companies...that way the playing field is level and we're all competing on equal footing.

I know, I know...some of you are saying these "other" Swedish companies aren't breaking the law, and that the onus of paying the tobacco tax falls to the consumer. You're partially right, but in the eyes of almost every state in the US, you're dead wrong. How do I know, because I've talked to each and every state regulatory body handling our registration. Trust me, if there was a way around it...we would have found it. One thing everyone needs to understand, Northerner is NOT a large company...it's a small company that is trying to stay in business and meet the ever changing legislative world we now live in. Do we want to position ourselves for a competitive advantage...sure, that's just good business. To refer to Frank as "scumbag" or say that he's trying to "screw his neighbor"...well, that just offends me and frankly is completely offbase. He started this company over 12yrs ago and has continually provided great service to his customers. In business, things like the PACT act, the EU ban and any other such crap are always happening, it's how a business reacts to them that makes them a good company. Am I saying that we haven't stumbled a time or two while undergoing change? Not at all, as evidenced by some of the delays....which we're working on.

Thanks for listening....

Rick

[BrianC]

Thanks rick, I was thinking along those lines but didn't know how to say it right.

[Bigblue1]

Hey,
I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone. Does anyone remember how it use to be before all tobacco regulations in Europe and the US? I'm just so *>'-_* frustrated about all these political issues. For EU it's easy to target on a small niche product when the big blue "pharmacutical companies are clapping their hands. First Pact Act, then more regulations waiting on the horizon, Swedish customs storming a collegue's office and now they are facing the judge - for selling something less harmful in EU?

Bigblue you are absolutely right - taking care of of our customers is our priority number one. We are working on improving our customer support for sure. One question, would you prefer a 800 number to call?


Frank

Well yeah a person is always better than waiting for an email. Anyway you look at it we are just talking about making things better. I've supported and defended you guys for a long while. It just seems that things have gotten crazy and it needs to be fixed. I will whip your CS department into shape if you want to employ another snusoner. Im am willing to move to PA if need be..........

[Frosted]

Thanks Rick.

I think the guys frustration is to do with communication.

1. There's got to be an accurate and up to date way of showing when stock is available and when it is not (I'm not sure whether your system works or not - I don't use Northerner that much). If it shows that it is available and it later becomes apparent that it is not, this leads to huge frustration and anger on the part of the customer.
2. There absoloutely has to be some way that is effective for the customer to contact the company in the event of problems.

Then your customer issues will simply fall away.

[rickcharles606]

Thanks Rick.

I think the guys frustration is to do with communication.

1. There's got to be an accurate and up to date way of showing when stock is available and when it is not (I'm not sure whether your system works or not - I don't use Northerner that much). If it shows that it is available and it later becomes apparent that it is not, this leads to huge frustration and anger on the part of the customer.
2. There absoloutely has to be some way that is effective for the customer to contact the company in the event of problems.

Then your customer issues will simply fall away.

Oh, I completely agree and Frank is aware and taking steps to correct. As with any business, customers are the lifeblood and we want to make certain that our customers get the type of service they deserve. But does that mean that Chad and PP get a beating with every order? LOL

Okay, I'm off to meet a wholesaler that wants to pick up our products. ;-)

[chadizzy1]

But does that mean that Chad and PP get a beating with every order? LOL

Not any more, I hired Sage as my bouncer

[Frosted]

I don't know, I keep thinking about the short bus! Seemed they were close to calling us the "short bus" word again, I only mention it because I never forgave you guys for that one and you lost my business right then and there!

That's when I stopped ordering.

[Snusdog]

Thanks Rick!!

I think your take is spot on. And I absolutely agree that Northerner is just as frustrated by this as the rest of us.

That said, having run a business my self the one thing that I think Northern needs is a PR person. I'm not talking about a PR firm or anything.............just someone who will keep the lines of communication open between the company and its customers. In my experience if you can do the following things go much better

1) Let your customers know what is happening (be direct and candid verses vague..............if your customers see that there is a real issue they are far more likely to be patient and understanding)
2) let them know what they should honestly expect (if there are going to be delays or stock issues give them as realistic a time frame as possible- if you spin it this will all back fire)
3) Let them know what you are doing to address the situation.........or at least that the situation matters and that it is being addressed

Do all of this pre- final check out so folks can make an informed decision and I think a lot of this frustration goes away.................most of what I have read here on this thread is that folks are in the dark................and that as much as anything is what is frustrating them.

A little front end PR and and a lot of this mess is reduced. Here is an example of what I mean. I posted the following in another thread

You know a lot of the trouble might be side step by something as simple as a notice pre final check out.........

"Due to the high volume of orders we are experiencing longer than normal turn around times on our shipping. Please be advised that the average order placed today will be shipped in 7 business days. We assure you this is only a temporary situation and that shipping times and stock issues should be back to normal soon. Thank you for your patience and your business. "

This would do three things
1) it would let people know up front the situation thereby alleviating a good bit of the disgust we are reading about on the thread
2) it would keep their email complaints down thus saving the time of having to answer them and the ill will when they are not answered
3) it might cause some people to wait to place their order for a few days thus letting Northerner catch up