Northerner Delays

[rickcharles606]

Thanks Rick!!

I think your take is spot on. And I absolutely agree that Northerner is just as frustrated by this as the rest of us.

That said, having run a business my self the one thing that I think Northern needs is a PR person. I'm not talking about a PR firm or anything.............just someone who will keep the lines of communication open between the company and its customers. In my experience if you can do the following things go much better

1) Let your customers know what is happening (be direct and candid verses vague..............if your customers see that there is a real issue they are far more likely to be patient and understanding)
2) let them know what they should honestly expect (if there are going to be delays or stock issues give them as realistic a time frame as possible- if you spin it this will all back fire)
3) Let them know what you are doing to address the situation.........or at least that the situation matters and that it is being addressed

Do all of this pre- final check out so folks can make an informed decision and I think a lot of this frustration goes away.................most of what I have read here on this thread is that folks are in the dark................and that as much as anything is what is frustrating them.

A little front end PR and and a lot of this mess is reduced. Here is an example of what I mean. I posted the following in another thread

You know a lot of the trouble might be side step by something as simple as a notice pre final check out.........






This would do three things
1) it would let people know up front the situation thereby alleviating a good bit of the disgust we are reading about on the thread
2) it would keep their email complaints down thus saving the time of having to answer them and the ill will when they are not answered
3) it might cause some people to wait to place their order for a few days thus letting Northerner catch up

I certainly hear everyone, and I know that Frank appreciates the constructive criticism as do I. We know that we need to work at getting better at communication with the customer, and that's why Frank is going to get the 800 number up and running. Keep it coming, because we always want to improve our operation so that we can better take care of the people that make it all possible....the customers ;-)

I guess my frustration comes in because Frank has taken the road less traveled, and made a real committment to the US customers by setting up the US distribution to brick and mortar stores AND maintained compliance with the PACT act with the online side of the business. In my opinion that shows his true committment to getting snus in the hands of his customers. Again, thanks for all the constructive criticism...we're working on getting better in many areas because we value you as customers and friends.

Best,

Rick

[Snusdog]

I certainly hear everyone, and I know that Frank appreciates the constructive criticism as do I. We know that we need to work at getting better at communication with the customer, and that's why Frank is going to get the 800 number up and running. Keep it coming, because we always want to improve our operation so that we can better take care of the people that make it all possible....the customers ;-)

I guess my frustration comes in because Frank has taken the road less traveled, and made a real committment to the US customers by setting up the US distribution to brick and mortar stores AND maintained compliance with the PACT act with the online side of the business. In my opinion that shows his true committment to getting snus in the hands of his customers. Again, thanks for all the constructive criticism...we're working on getting better in many areas because we value you as customers and friends.

Best,

Rick

The way I see it, without Frank's decision to open up a US base, folks in the EU would be very hard pressed about now.

I certainly appreciate Northerners efforts and am rooting for their success and the success of snus in general.

[GN Tobacco Sweden AB]

The way I see it, without Frank's decision to open up a US base, folks in the EU would be very hard pressed about now.

I certainly appreciate Northerners efforts and am rooting for their success and the success of snus in general.

Totaly agree .....

[Snusdog]

Hey Rick,

On a side note you and Frank both alluded to the notion that there is going to be a tightening up of enforcing Pact regulations. Could you elaborate a bit on this for us.

I remember reading in the appropriations portion of the bill that no new money was being allocated to the customs or the postal system to implement the Pact regulations. Has this changed? Or is there something else?

[fishmeat]

The way I see it, without Frank's decision to open up a US base, folks in the EU would be very hard pressed about now.
I certainly appreciate Northerners efforts and am rooting for their success and the success of snus in general.

Totaly agree .....

x2 I am glad that The Northerner is doing what they can do.

[rickcharles606]

Hey Rick,

On a side note you and Frank both alluded to the notion that there is going to be a tightening up of enforcing Pact regulations. Could you elaborate a bit on this for us.

I remember reading in the appropriations portion of the bill that no new money was being allocated to the customs or the postal system to implement the Pact regulations. Has this changed? Or is there something else?

Something else. As many of you know, it is difficult for the Feds to "enforce" something like the PACT act, especially at the state level. When I began contacting all the states to register the company, etc...MANY of the states didn't even know what the PACT act was or how to handle a company like Northerner's tax returns and monthly reports, etc.

That has now changed, lol. Most of the states want the additional tax revenue from delivery sellers, because hey...it's more money. What you run into at the state level are all the brick and mortar stores complaining about online companies selling tobacco products into their state tax free, and the brick and mortar stores cannot compete with that and are losing revenue. They have large lobbying voices in each and every state, so laws restricting or in some states prohibiting delivery sales were passed. BUT...they still had difficulty enforcing these laws because it was difficult to track. Enter the PACT act...while it's a Federal law, it still gives the states the ability to track who's doing what, because all delivery sellers are required to register with the US Atty Gen's office and ship through UPS now.
So what happens when a company doesn't go through the registration process? Well, these states are becoming more and more saavy on how to find online companies. They use the internet just like you and I, and have probably been to this very site. So they have someone from their office set up an account with an unregistered delivery seller and place an order...and BAM, instant evidence.

Now, after they have proof of the "infraction"....they can put that company on the "naughty" list at ATF, and customs will stop their shipments from entering the US, and furthermore UPS won't be able to ship a tobacco product unless the taxes have already been paid. Most states have laws on the books that a common carrier cannot ship untaxed tobacco product into the state, otherwise they are liable. That's the nuts and bolts of it, and more and more states are coming online with stuff like this.

[Rattlesnake]

Hi guys,
Since the EU ban much have changed as you guessed, we now only ship from our US warehouse. We have employed more people at the US warehouse and unfortunately will have to let several people leave at the Swedish office. We will arrange a new US customer support with a 800 number to call.

I do understand that some prefer to pay taxfree snus, but for us it just feel unfair and we hope that the US custom will soon do their job (what I have read in the news). Both US and foreign companies have to follow the Pact Act - beleive me we have checked with several lawyers in Washington. We wanted to find out because if no foreign company needed to follow the Pact Act we planned to switch Northerner.com to another Swedish company.

With all respect, everything we do is only beneficial for US cummunity - more US people employed and US investment, more tax money to Uncle Sam (whatever we feel about that).

Have a great day!
Frank

There is no chance You will ever have me as a customer again. I appreciate your letting us Former customers know where your concerns lie. I Hope your new employees can live by your example.

Northerner will never piss down my back and call it rain again.

Sorry all you fellas that support Northerner and want to give Frank the benefit of believing in him but I think He is lying again to keep from getting a spanking.

[chadizzy1]

I do understand that some prefer to pay taxfree snus, but for us it just feel unfair

It's not that people are trying to skirt the system, or to boycott Northerner. I've talked to a lot of folks about this. The tax thing is a big deal to folks. Granted it may be the law of the land, but let's be honest - this economy is terrible. People want to quit smoking and use snus - a lot of them will try and find the cheapest way possible to do it. Whether it's right or wrong is one thing - but you have to keep in mind a lot of people are out of work/hurting for money. Not trying to be dangerous or live illegally, but trying to reduce their harm in the cheapest way possible.

I order from Northerner and BuySnus, both stores have different things I like. BuySnus has Skruf - Northerner has Gotland's. So both get my money.

[Anthony]

I'm sure he meant to say, "Damn, I'm sure glad my competitor's customers don't have to pay that tax that my customers have to pay."

And right now, US states around the country are probably saying to those not paying, "Oh those taxes we think you owe us, screw it, we got plenty."

[rickcharles606]

It's not that people are trying to skirt the system, or to boycott Northerner. I've talked to a lot of folks about this. The tax thing is a big deal to folks. Granted it may be the law of the land, but let's be honest - this economy is terrible. People want to quit smoking and use snus - a lot of them will try and find the cheapest way possible to do it. Whether it's right or wrong is one thing - but you have to keep in mind a lot of people are out of work/hurting for money. Not trying to be dangerous or live illegally, but trying to reduce their harm in the cheapest way possible.

I order from Northerner and BuySnus, both stores have different things I like. BuySnus has Skruf - Northerner has Gotland's. So both get my money.

Oh dude, we completely understand that people want the best possible deal possible. There's just no two ways around it anymore, PACT is a law here in the US and if we want to offer any longevity to this US market and our US customers, we had to comply. Does it suck....hell yeah. I detest over taxation in our country. But to avoid any legal implications Frank decided to comply, and I'm glad he did. If other companies want to do business here, they will probably be forced to do the very same thing.

I know some people are pissed off about it, and I truly hope that we can one day earn their business back. I know that may be an impossibility for some, but if there's anything that I can do....please don't hesitate to contact me via PM and we can discuss it.

[chadizzy1]

Oh dude, we completely understand that people want the best possible deal possible. There's just no two ways around it anymore, PACT is a law here in the US and if we want to offer any longevity to this US market and our US customers, we had to comply. Does it suck....hell yeah. I detest over taxation in our country. But to avoid any legal implications Frank decided to comply, and I'm glad he did. If other companies want to do business here, they will probably be forced to do the very same thing.

I know some people are pissed off about it, and I truly hope that we can one day earn their business back. I know that may be an impossibility for some, but if there's anything that I can do....please don't hesitate to contact me via PM and we can discuss it.

To be fair, Northerner did put a LOT of work in to get them completely compliant with PACT. I talked to Rick quite a bit during this process, and I can imagine him and Frank consider it a slap in the face that they did all that work and money that they probably didn't have to do - they could have stuck it out and made money for a while, but eventually yeah - it may end up that they are the ONLY ones shipping snus in the US. Then you guys will be thankful that they charged tax because they'll be the only ones you can get snus from :P

[Premium Parrots]

to be fair, northerner did put a lot of work in to get them completely compliant with pact. I talked to rick quite a bit during this process, and i can imagine him and frank consider it a slap in the face that they did all that work and money that they probably didn't have to do - they could have stuck it out and made money for a while, but eventually yeah - it may end up that they are the only ones shipping snus in the us. Then you guys will be thankful that they charged tax because they'll be the only ones you can get snus from

exactly!!!!!

[CoderGuy]

To be fair, Northerner did put a LOT of work in to get them completely compliant with PACT. I talked to Rick quite a bit during this process, and I can imagine him and Frank consider it a slap in the face that they did all that work and money that they probably didn't have to do - they could have stuck it out and made money for a while, but eventually yeah - it may end up that they are the ONLY ones shipping snus in the US. Then you guys will be thankful that they charged tax because they'll be the only ones you can get snus from :P

+2! That's why I only order from Northerner or buy locally.

[Snusify]

I have only really had 1 instance of a late delivery from the Northerner in a few years now, well infact it was a delivery that went missing. And although as it was a shipping from their American warehouse to the EU they replaced the order with no fuss. I will continue to be a loyal customer.

[resilve]

Hey guys, first time posting

Ironically finding this forum searching for info on this very topic.

I basically have 2 orders (one 22 days old, one 10 days old - places it because all the stuff was "in stock" so I thought it would be sent as normal) that are still pending at the warehouse - Im not mad at northerner for having issues, I am sure they wouldnt have chosen for any of this shitty business situation for them and us.

But my question is, can I legitimately cancel my orders and order them somewhere else that will just ship them straight away as normal? If so where is the best place to order to the UK? Northerner were always amazing and I never looked beyond - but I cant wait much more for my snus - over 3 weeks without any is already pretty tough . Is it just everyone ****ed by this? Or countries such as norway/US are exempt from the ban?

TL;DR: - 1) Can I cancel my order if I payed but they didnt ship it in 3 weeks, 2) Where is a good alternative, or everyone is as ****ed as Northerner?