Snus in Finland

[Jan]

Hello everyone,

although this is my very first post here I have been reading the forums for a while. you are all very nice guys...

December has been a rather difficult month for us in the past two years. Tax increase of 2006 followed by another tax increase in 2007 and now there is a big snus war ahead in the EU. We all hope, of course, that common sense will prevail and that the days are numbered for the snus ban.

However,

I got terrified when I read this article in the english section of Helsingin Sanomat the other day (Helsingin Sanomat is a major newspaper in Finland)
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Ant.../1135242198871

It looks like someone in the finnish gov. wants to forbid people from using snus. Even private imports, buying from websites, everything shall be forbidden should the new law take place.

I wonder how are they going to enforce such a ban, will they leave the EU and the Schengen agreement, will they put customs checkpoints back,will they check everybody who passes through Finnish borders? In nowadays EU this would be impossible...

I know this place is frequented by Finnish people, so your comments, news updates are very welcome.

I am myself of Finnish ancestry and always loved the country for its beautiful nature and culture but now it seems it is not easy to be a Finn.

Janis
Goeteborgs Rape, General, Ettan, Everything Gotland. EVERYTHING LOS!

[sagedil]

First Jan, welcome to the forum. I apologize that my fellow snusers who were supposed to step in as official welcomers have totally fallen down on the job. Guess I am needed here after all. :wink:

First, don't stress it. I am an American, and I can tell you that there is always SOMEONE who wants to make a stupid law. Just cause some folks are talking about it, doesn't mean it will happen.

As you have already thought through, there is NO way to enforce something as silly as this without Finland withdrawing from it's current arrangements. Now as much as some people are truly Fascist when it comes to tobacco, I still see no way that tobacco would lead Finland to do something such as this.

So my best advice is don't stress it. At least until it seems to really be happening, but I just don't see that.

And again, welcome to the forum. i apologize for the delay in even responding. Let's just chalk this one up to the holidays. :lol:

[Eidekker]

Sheer madness.

Just recently a sosio-political committee of Ministers of parliament for updating the tobaccolaws in Finland wanted to ban snus import and use completely, and almost got it written in the new law. After 2 years all cigarettes vanish from public sight in the shops, kiosk etc, and are to be sold "under the counter" only!

Mean time, there's no ban for nicotine tablets, gum or patches, that are sold openly in the shops, kiosks and pharmacies..

What is funny, they even talked of banning licorice pipes (candy) and images of people smoking in the films, but that didn't pull through either.

The committee got "expert advice" from a team consisting of 9, 5 of them were corporate managers oir similar of tobacco companies!!

The "expert team" was called & set by the conservative National Coalition Party's Minister of Health and Social Services, Paula Risikko..

Researcher Satu Helakorpi - Kansanterveyslaitos
Chief of Research Esko Hirvonen - Tullihallitus (Customs)
Representative Asta Mörsky - Tupakkateollisuusliitto ry (Union for Tobacco Industries)
CEO Kari Heikkilä - Altadis Finland Oy
CEO Janne Mansukoski - British American Tobacco Nordic Oy
Communications Manager Lauri Mäkinen British American Tobacco Nordic Oy
Manager Perttu Ratilainen - Philip Morris Finland Oy
CEO Timo Lappi - Mara ry
Manager Hans Ahlström - Suomen Varustamot ry

I bolded out those in cigarette business.

Google their names and companies, and you'll see what I mean.

It remains to be seen whether the limit of 30 cans !! import of snus from Sweden for personal use becomes effective in the near future.

An average smoker uses 30 pack of cigarettes in a month and has NO limit of importing cigarettes what so ever from EU-countries, but an average snus user of 1 can/day has to make trips to Sweden quite often..

And with the crazy taxation it's nearly impossible for average snuser to order snus from online shops to Finland.

For example, a roll of 10 cans of General Extra STERK portion (27,65 USD) from Northerner costs with postage (8,82 USD) ONLY 161,41 USD !!!

Price: $ 27.65
Tobacco Tax: $ 92.70
Delivery cost: $ 8.82
EU Sales Tax (25%): $ 32.29
Total: $ 161.41


Sheer madness.

Sad situation for poor suckers like me, who have no friends or relatives in Sweden or USA..

(sorry for bad grammar or typos.)

[lxskllr]

You have my sympathies Eidekker. I hope things work out for you guys. They should just lock everybody up in their own padded cell. That way they'll be protected from all the harms in the world :^/

[Eidekker]

Thanks for the support lxskllr !!

I just don't get it, just recently few firemen got 2 yrs hard time in prison for smuggling and selling 300 000 cans of snus. They used to get friends to legally import snus from Sweden in vast quantities via ferries to be sold "under the counter" in well known kiosks in the capital city.

2 YRS!! That's more than an average child molester gets!

And everyone knows that firemen, policemen etc. use snus, on swedish speaking west coast of Finland in some towns more than 80% of the cops use snus.

Usage of snus goes way back to 15-16th century trade with Sweden, and we used to have own snus factories in Finland. After joining the EU the whole culture changed. Before that you could buy snus from shops and kiosks like in Sweden...

I guess we Finns were not witty enough to ask exemption from EU-wide snus ban like the swedes did.

Sorry to rant about this, but my blood is boiling, and I know that I'm not the only one here..

Just waiting for a miracle to happen to un-ban the "friend of the upper lip"..

:wink:

[lxskllr]

I tell you what, I'm not feeling too smug here in America. I could see us taking the same route in the not too distant future.

I really don't want to be protected by the government. I can assess the risks, and make my own choices. The government can keep an eye on outright fraud, but otherwise they need to **** off.

[ddandb]

Sorry to hear this is happening and I agree, I see the US heading down the same slippery slope.
The rational they used behind getting smoking banned in just about every place in America was second hand smoke dangers.
Ok, let's say it is a danger to others, what's the rational behind Snus, dip, and chewing? I'm not hurting anyone else.
Stop protecting me from me. Are we going to ban everything that could possibly cause harm?

[Eidekker]

I'm just waiting for a new law for an obligatory helmet for walking on the streets..

[aj01]

Finland

No Swedish Match at the table.

Actually, it makes sense, because they are working via Brussels to hear their cause known, and would be viewed as hostile advisors given their products are probably 90+% of what's being bought.

The tobacco company reps are there to impart knowledge as to what's been done in other countries, i.e. maximum limits per passenger, personal use vs. resale and youth prevention strategies.

Also, they are trying to show Brussels they are working on this, as their hands have been slapped too many times already for snus. It was the Finnish ferries who were moving the good before they were busted a few years ago.

[justintempler]

Here in the United Sates - Malboro Snus and Discreet Snus are being sold in foil ziplock type bags instead of round cans.

If that type of packaging where ever to catch on.......... :idea:

It would be almost impossible to screen for that kind of packaging if they were sent individually along with letter mail.

24grams (1 ounce), 45 grams (2 ounce), given the tax rates in countries like Norway, Finland, and Canada. even with the cost of mailing individual packages and loss of mail you'd still be ahead.