Judge Arcara's PACT ruling...

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  • snusgetter
    Member
    • May 2010
    • 10903

    Judge Arcara's PACT ruling...

    July 30, 2010, 3:15 PM

    Judge upholds ban on mailing of cigarettes

    A judge today upheld the federal government's right to ban the mailing of cigarettes by Seneca Nation tobacco businesses, but rejected for the time being the collection of taxes on those cigarettes.

    The ruling by U.S. District Judge Richard J. Arcara upholds the crux of a new federal law that Seneca business owners say will cripple their mail-order operations.

    In short, the judge banned the sale of tobacco products through the mail but allowed for other forms of interstate sales of tax-free cigarettes.

    The Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act, or PACT Act, is viewed by both critics and supporters as sweeping legislation with billions of dollars in tax revenue and thousands of jobs at stake.

    Arcara, in his decision, rejected a request by Seneca businesses for a preliminary injunction that would have prevented the government from enforcing a law that applies to all businesses that mail tobacco products.

    The judge, however, did issue an injunction against one aspect of the law -- the right of federal, state and local governments to collect taxes on other forms of interstate sales of tobacco products.

    Earlier this month, Arcara issued a temporary restraining order that, in essence, gave the businesses a reprieve from the laws enforcement.

    The new law prohibits the U.S. Postal Service from delivering commercial cigarette shipments, and requires companies that engage in interstate cigarette sales to pay all federal, state and local taxes where the buyer lives.

    The law also requires cigarette businesses to register with the state where they are headquartered and make periodic reports to state tax departments. It also requires they check the age and identification of customers who buy tobacco products.

    In defending the law, government lawyers said it was enacted to prevent underage smokers from obtaining cigarettes through the mail and to end a practice that cost governments billions of dollars a year in lost taxes.

    The government claims the federal measure was carefully drafted to adhere to the U.S. Constitution and to avoid infringing on the sovereign rights of Native Americans.

    The bill, signed into law in March by President Obama, is backed by a coalition that ranges from anti-smoking groups to convenience store owners to large tobacco manufacturers.

    The other side, most notably Seneca businesses, has portrayed the law as discriminatory against Indians, and as a windfall for non-Indian tobacco businesses.

    The Seneca Fair Trade Association, which represents 140 businesses, has argued that the law is unconstitutional and, if enacted, would force hundreds of Seneca-owned businesses to close their doors and eliminate 3,000 jobs."
    It seems like Judge Arcara considered only the plight of the Senecas at this time.
    I couldn't find any mention of the other issues he was reported to be considering.
    Maybe there will be more updates forthcoming, but I doubt it.

    "..the judge banned the sale of tobacco products through the mail but allowed for
    other forms of interstate sales of tax-free cigarettes"??
  • tom502
    Member
    • Feb 2009
    • 8985

    #2
    Doesn't make sense to me.
    Said they don't have to collect taxes, but still can't mail their cigs? That's what I got from it.

    Comment

    • snusgetter
      Member
      • May 2010
      • 10903

      #3
      Originally posted by tom502 View Post
      Doesn't make sense to me.
      Said they don't have to collect taxes, but still can't mail their cigs? That's what I got from it.
      How about this..

      "..the judge banned the sale of tobacco products through the mail but allowed for
      other forms of interstate sales of tax-free cigarettes"??

      What am I missing here?


      I'm assuming IT AIN'T OVER YET.

      Or maybe it is and all we need are the professional pundits to
      dissect the complete transcript(s) of the ruling.

      Comment

      • snusgetter
        Member
        • May 2010
        • 10903

        #4
        And the beat goes on...

        Judge Issues Mixed Ruling on Federal Cigarette Law (2010-07-30)

        Seneca Indians in the mail-order cigarette business will have to comply with some, but not all, provisions of a new federal law while they fight to have it struck down in court.

        A federal judge in Buffalo issued a mixed decision in response to a request by more than 140 Seneca-owned businesses to be exempt from the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act while they challenge the law's constitutionality.

        Judge Richard Arcara's decision temporarily exempts the businesses from the part of the law that requires sellers to comply with all state and local taxing laws in the places they sell cigarettes.

        But Arcara says a provision prohibiting businesses from shipping cigarettes through the mail can be enforced.
        "while they fight to have it struck down in court"...

        Sounds like there's more fight left in the Senecas!!

        Comment

        • c.nash
          Banned Users
          • May 2010
          • 3511

          #5
          They gotta take it down.

          PLEASE TAKE IT DOWN!

          It will benefit everyone!

          Comment

          • snusgetter
            Member
            • May 2010
            • 10903

            #6
            Originally posted by c.nash
            They gotta take it down.

            PLEASE TAKE IT DOWN!


            It will benefit everyone!
            In honor of your sentiments, I present...


            As you can see, we spare no expense!!

            Comment

            • texastorm
              Member
              • Jul 2010
              • 386

              #7
              Wait? What?

              Ok so far in this they win the right not to have to deal with all the taxes, however they lose because now they have no one to ship their smokes across the country.

              So they can stay in the mail order business, as long as they create their own delivery system?

              Is there any delivery service left that accepts cigarettes?

              Comment

              • snusgetter
                Member
                • May 2010
                • 10903

                #8
                Originally posted by texastorm View Post
                Wait? What?

                Ok so far in this they win the right not to have to deal with all the taxes, however they lose because now they have no one to ship their smokes across the country.


                So they can stay in the mail order business, as long as they create their own delivery system?


                Is there any delivery service left that accepts cigarettes?
                Would this, indeed, be a conundrum
                in need of an elephant condom?

                As said to Mr Off: Fill 'er up, Jack!

                Maybe we can ask Judge Arcara??
                I hear his rule is long and straight!

                Poor Ronnie, though, must be rolling over in his grave...
                He always treated his cinemindians right!!





                NEENEE NAHNAH NOONOO!

                Comment

                • Randall
                  Member
                  • May 2010
                  • 753

                  #9
                  I guess they can still sell their tobacco in shops on the reservations tax free. Suppose that helps some. Maybe.

                  Comment

                  • Snusdog
                    Member
                    • Jun 2008
                    • 6752

                    #10
                    Here is another article that might shed some light

                    Split ruling from NY judge on cigarette regulation
                    By CAROLYN THOMPSON (AP) – 3 hours ago

                    BUFFALO, N.Y. — Seneca Indians in the mail-order cigarette business can no longer use the post office to ship cigarettes while they fight to have a new law banning the practice struck down in court, a federal judge ruled Friday.

                    In a mixed decision, Judge Richard Arcara upheld the mail-order ban contained in the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act but temporarily exempted more than 140 Seneca-owned businesses from a provision requiring them to comply with all taxing laws in the places they sell cigarettes.

                    The order will remain in place while a lawsuit claiming the PACT Act is unconstitutional works its way through the court.

                    The ruling disappointed Seneca Nation President Barry Snyder, who said it would not protect tobacco employees from losing their jobs.

                    Some Seneca businesses shut down even before the law took effect June 29, saying without the post office they had no way to ship the thousands of cartons of discount cigarettes ordered by phone and Internet each day by smokers around the country. UPS and FedEx voluntarily stopped shipping cigarettes several years ago.
                    "The nation urges Seneca business people to continue their court battle — all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, if necessary — to allow mailing of legal tobacco products," Snyder said.

                    Seneca-owned businesses are estimated to control 80 percent of the country's mail-order cigarette market. Relying on tribal sovereignty, sellers do not collect state sales taxes, allowing them to sell cigarettes at prices far lower than nonnative competitors.

                    Native American sellers were offering cartons of Marlboros for $50.99 on Friday, compared with the $100 price tag in off-reservation convenience stores in New York, where the sales tax is $4.35 per pack.

                    Nonnative retailers are among PACT's biggest supporters.

                    In his ruling, Arcara disagreed with claims by Seneca lawyers that the law violated the Constitution's equal protection rights because it has a disproportionate effect on Native Americans. Congress knew leveling the playing field for nonnative retailers would hurt American Indian businesses, he wrote, "but took that action in spite of that fact, and not because of it."

                    He also shot down challenges to the mail ban, saying Congress has the authority to prohibit tobacco shipments if it wants.

                    "It was Congress's judgment that use of the mails .... facilitates illegal cigarette trafficking and enhances the accessibility of cigarettes for minors," Arcara said.
                    But the judge said the law's unprecedented requirement that sellers follow the taxing schemes of the cities and states into which they ship could have far-reaching effects and deserved a closer look.

                    "If Congress possesses the authority to subject out-of-state retailers to every state and local taxing jurisdiction into which their products are delivered, then it has the authority to do so for all commercial products, not just cigarettes," Arcara said.

                    Plaintiff Aaron Pierce, whose 10-year-old Seneca Smokeshop does business in 46 states from the Cattaraugus reservation, planned to find an alternate delivery method, his lawyer said without elaborating.

                    "We're pleased to be remaining in business and we intend to do so," attorney Michael Feeley said.

                    Arcara's ruling came hours before an earlier temporary order blocking enforcement of the entire law was set to expire.
                    When it's my time to go, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my uncle did....... Not screaming in terror like his passengers

                    Comment

                    • snusgetter
                      Member
                      • May 2010
                      • 10903

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Snusdog View Post
                      Here is another article that might shed some light
                      Dog..

                      I hope you don't mind but I added your post as a comment to my blog.

                      Comment

                      • lxskllr
                        Member
                        • Sep 2007
                        • 13435

                        #12
                        Wow... Hard to believe $51 a carton is a good deal on cigarettes. They were about $8 a carton when I started :^/

                        Comment

                        • bipolarbear1968
                          Member
                          • Mar 2010
                          • 1074

                          #13
                          Hell, I can still get a carton of Generics for less than $40.

                          I guess greed just runs this country....

                          Comment

                          • snusgetter
                            Member
                            • May 2010
                            • 10903

                            #14
                            Originally posted by lxskllr View Post
                            Wow... Hard to believe $51 a carton is a good deal on cigarettes. They were about $8 a carton when I started :^/
                            Not to date myself, but I remember paying
                            $4.00 a carton or 50 cents for a single pack.

                            Back then there was no stigma attached...
                            Ronald Reagan (pronounced reegan back then), John Wayne, Lucille Ball,
                            The Flintstones were all peddling the coolness/hipness of lighting up!








                            NO CARPET GLUE ADDED!


                            Were those really the days, my friend?

                            Comment

                            • Snusdog
                              Member
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 6752

                              #15
                              Originally posted by snusgetter View Post
                              Dog..

                              I hope you don't mind but I added your post as a comment to my blog.
                              Don't mind at all. I thought it clarified some points that the other article raised. Glad it was of help
                              When it's my time to go, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my uncle did....... Not screaming in terror like his passengers

                              Comment

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